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I can't cope with depressed brother being so reliant on me. Feel like a bitch for saying that.

789 replies

inigomontoyahwillcox · 02/12/2024 05:47

I'm so sorry - this going to be so long - but I need to get this out. I'm up with this awful cough/chest infection which makes it impossible to lie down and sleep. Been ill since last Tuesday. Have had virtually no sleep since then. Pretty sure a lot of you will think I'm a heartless cow, but I'm getting to my wits end.

Context. My brother (quite significantly older than me) has suffered from depression since he was a teen. He has been on antidepressants since then, except for a couple of occasions when he's taken himself off them for one reason or another, which have ended up in disaster. He lives about 2.5 hours away from me.

For some years now he has been spending more and more time at my house with my DH, DD and I. He lives alone and came to stay with us during lock down, and has often come to stay with us, sometimes for weeks, off and on since then when he's feeling low or had a crappy couple of weeks (e.g. work stress). I've always said to him of course he can come, how can I not, but he's often then stayed and stayed, prolonging his stay without discussing it with me - just declaring he's not going to go home for another week at the end of his planned stay.

He has a fantastic job in the civil service, but has had lot and lots of absences for various ailments over the past couple of years and they are understandably getting serious about his attendance. He seems to think this is very unfair and how they just don't understand. I've tried gently - but seriously - to explain that you can indeed be dismissed for repeated or lengthy absences.

In May this year he started getting some odd physical symptoms - balance issues/vertigo mainly (other very vague things like feeling cold, and out of it) - I rushed down there to him when this initially happened as he took himself to hospital thinking he was having a stroke. Ultimately anything serious was ruled out and after taking him to a few appointments for some further checks I drove him back to mine to stay. He decided that these symptoms were due to his antidepressant (that he'd been on for 15 years), so agreed with his GP to reduce his dose to an incredibly small one (questionable that it was even therapeutic anymore - it was 1/4 of the starting dose, he had been on double the starting dose for 15 years). His physical symptoms did clear up eventually - he put this down to this reduction in his antidepressants - I wasn't so convinced. I also voiced my concern that he was now effectively not on antidepressants and we all know how that had ended up in the past and that he needed to push to try another antidepressant if he didn't want to go back to his old one.

He eventually went back home and to work, and was there for a few months until he started experiencing stomach issues, now diagnosed as IBS (which I know is not fun - I've had it for years myself) and yet again took himself off work. He was working with his GP and a dietician and put on the FODMAP diet which he's still on. Again, he came to ours for a few weeks. His work were getting very ancy by this time and he started to do some hours remotely from ours as he had no choice. Eventually he went home again, he was home for a week only then for his depression to increase so I told him to get an emergency appointment with his GP who told him to double his dose last week. Well all hell broke loose (assuming side effects of increasing the dose). I've been ill for a couple of months now with all these bloody relentless viruses (also been very anemic for a lot longer and recently had a couple of infusions and currently undergoing tests to find out why - so you can imagine how rough I've been feeling), but last Tuesday I came down with proper flu (raging temp etc.) and have been in bed since and have been mainly off work (doing work when needed from bed). I never take time off work, honestly have to be at deaths door - have subsequently developed a chest infection and am on antibiotics. Got a call from my brother at 5:30am on Wednesday with him feeling awful saying I needed to drive down and collect him, after explaining I couldn't as I was ill asked to speak to DH and asked him to go. I said to DH that he couldn't, he had work plus he was helping me out with a work event in the evening which I obviously couldn't attend any more but he still needed to arrange some stuff and be there for a short while. I put my foot down and said he had to either drive, get the train or wait until we could drive to him and if he was in crisis to call his local crisis team immediately. He eventually said he would drive as he couldn't fit all the stuff he wanted to bring in a backpack so the train was out (so he'd get obviously decided at that point he was coming for a while).

Since he's been with us he has been waking me up every morning at silly-o'clock (e.g. 5-6), as he's been experiencing massive anxiety. I've been woken up three times now to him standing in our bedroom crying and saying he can't cope. I am getting about 2 hours of sleep per night due to this chest infection anyway, and have usually only just dropped off when he's waking me up. At this rate I'm never going to get better. DH had to stop him coming into our bedroom the other day when I had eventually managed to doze off. Anyway, called the local out of hours crisis team yesterday morning and sat with him whilst he spoke to them, they're seeing him this morning and have told him to register as a temporary patient at my local GP and they are hopefully going to make a plan going forward - e.g. moving to a new antidepressant (I hope). On the phone he said to them he was going to stay with me indefinitely (no discussion with me) and can't see himself doing his job for some months.

In the past when he's had a crisis like this he's decamped to our parents who look after him for months whilst he recovers and he finds a new job - but he's decided that he finds it too stressful to stay with them (they're getting on now as well). I can see what is going to happen. He is going to loose his job, loose his rented flat as a result and have nowhere to live but here with us. So, unemployed, living with us indefinitely. And what choice do I have?

It's really stressful when he stays with us - just the whole dynamic/routine of the household goes out the window. He has always been single and as a result his life revolves around himself, he spreads himself and his things around the house, and changes/moves/breaks thing (little things, but they all add up) and gets argumentative when I ask him not to do something. My home just doesn't feel like my home anymore; I can't spend evenings chilling out lying on the sofa in front of the telly with DH, as we often do, he's often lying on the sofa watching TV himself, he smokes although takes himself outside but his clothes smell of smoke. He is in our small spare room (well, he's on the sofa tonight for some reason) which we had just recently decked out as DD's study as her bedroom isn't really big enough for a desk; she's finishing her mocks tomorrow and has her GCSEs in May - she has ADHD and it's been incredibly challenging for her academically, but we'd really turned a corner recently and she's determined to get into 6th form, I'm so worried all of this is going to upheave her, stress her out and affect her performance; she's been so proud of her achievements recently and I think if she does badly now what little confidence she'd recently gained will disappear.

I am pretty sure a straw will break the camel's back and I will end up loosing it with him at some point, or just getting incredibly stressed and ill (stress usually manifests itself physically with me as I just try to ignore it and push on through - I've had my own mental health battles). But how can I effectively abandon my depressed brother? I love him dearly, and want him to be well, but he's come to rely on me so heavily that it's becoming too much. He's really not helped himself; taking so much time off work for spurious reasons and now he really needs the time off they are challenging him and his job is in jeopardy; him not taking my advice about not going cold turkey on the antidepressants without a plan to start a new one; just the assumption that we can constantly put our lives on hold. DH is being incredibly understanding - but I can even see him getting frustrated by my brother over the past few months. DH also had a huge mental breakdown last year and attempted suicide twice, he's only just got back on some sort of even keel about 6 months ago but is still recovering. Jesus, what if HE ends up breaking down again and then I've got 2 men in crisis to look after?! I've got my own full time stressful job to do as well, plus a neurodivergent daughter to keep on track. I'm terrified! I honestly don't know what to do for the best. He has very good friends but they don't live in the same city as him, but other than them and my parents, we're all he has.

What the fuck do I do?

OP posts:
DistanceCall · 06/12/2024 16:40

schmeler · 06/12/2024 16:33

I wasn't. It was called a reply. If you do not want a reply then do not make a statement! It isn't about you and your views yet here you are!

It wasn't me you were replying to.

This is obviously hitting a nerve in you. Again: this isn't about you.

murasaki · 06/12/2024 16:44

LeftWhisker · 06/12/2024 16:37

OT and I hope I am not offending you but opening of this thread reminds me of the character Sarah played by Laura Linney in Love Actually.

Good analogy, although the OP has even more people who are being affected by this. But she seems to be on it, which is really positive.

Oldrunner · 06/12/2024 16:45

schmeler · 06/12/2024 16:36

Will you reply the same to the other posters who shared their opinion of it existing?

Well I'm a health professional who believes it does exist and that her brothers manipulative behavior could be very indicative of an undiagnosed personality disorder.
But my point was that I don't think it's helpful for the OP to derail the thread with arguments whether or not personality disorder exists.
Whatever is causing the brother to behave the way he is, the important thing for us all is to try and support the OP.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Tragicmun · 06/12/2024 16:47

I think your parents were playing the long game when they made you feel guilty from 7 years old for the Chicken Pox.
It was always their plan to make you responsible for him.
I've had a similar situation with my twin brother where I was expected to look after him after our mum died, but I've always refused to and I told her that. It's so freeing!

schmeler · 06/12/2024 17:00

DistanceCall · 06/12/2024 16:40

It wasn't me you were replying to.

This is obviously hitting a nerve in you. Again: this isn't about you.

Again this isn't about you yet you are making it about you for some reason and trying to insinuate that me replying is an issue. As I stated all were replies! You kind of missed that or ignored it.

Not hitting any nerve as it was never about me. It is you who is making it about you for some reason and cannot handle me replying to countless people who made comments to me.

schmeler · 06/12/2024 17:04

Oldrunner · 06/12/2024 16:45

Well I'm a health professional who believes it does exist and that her brothers manipulative behavior could be very indicative of an undiagnosed personality disorder.
But my point was that I don't think it's helpful for the OP to derail the thread with arguments whether or not personality disorder exists.
Whatever is causing the brother to behave the way he is, the important thing for us all is to try and support the OP.

So that is a no then and so their comments are not helpful as using stigma is the route you use then? I made one comment and countless others responded back. It was the minute I replied to all of them you had an issue. I didn't derail it. Replying to countless others is not derailing it. Them all making comments to me to reply to is as was your comment. By all means you believe in stigmatising ppl. I do not.

There is no tests to prove it exists.

SheilaFentiman · 06/12/2024 17:09

Suggest ignoring derails so thread stays as helpful as possible to OP.

I hope you, DH and DD are catching your breath tonight, OP - maybe a nice takeaway?

itsmabeline · 06/12/2024 17:11

I'm so glad it sounds like he'll be transported and admitted back in his home city.

How is your own health now? Have you recovered from being sick?

I think you are long overdue being able to think about yourself and your self care. Take some time to just think about yourself.

I'm glad you went out to your daughter's favourite restaurant for a treat. Did you say you have a massage at a spa lined up for the weekend?

schmeler · 06/12/2024 17:12

Oldrunner · 06/12/2024 16:45

Well I'm a health professional who believes it does exist and that her brothers manipulative behavior could be very indicative of an undiagnosed personality disorder.
But my point was that I don't think it's helpful for the OP to derail the thread with arguments whether or not personality disorder exists.
Whatever is causing the brother to behave the way he is, the important thing for us all is to try and support the OP.

Could you please explain how using stigma helps and calling him abnormal helps the OP?

LardoBurrows · 06/12/2024 17:13

SheilaFentiman · 06/12/2024 17:09

Suggest ignoring derails so thread stays as helpful as possible to OP.

I hope you, DH and DD are catching your breath tonight, OP - maybe a nice takeaway?

Totally agree. Some people are like a dog with a bone and are happy to derail threads just to labour a point or have the last word.

I do hope there is some light at the end of the tunnel for you Op and that the DB is being transferred back to a medical facility in his home town.

SheilaFentiman · 06/12/2024 17:17

Hope your electrics got sorted too - what a thing to happen on top of everything else!

Uricon2 · 06/12/2024 17:18

(Ignoring derail)

OP, I hope that you can find a good balance between your obvious love for your brother and letting go enough to protect you and your DH and DD. It isn't easy but sometimes it takes the caregiver saying "no more" to get the unwell person the help they need and that is the very best thing you can do for them.

FormerlyPathologicallyHappy · 06/12/2024 17:18

Two of dhs relatives act like the world revolves around them, I suspect narc personality disorder in both of them. Their behaviour is so abnormal and they have no insight into it.

TheGander · 06/12/2024 17:20

Schmeler this isn’t about you, and please lay off @DistanceCall and @Oldrunner . You are at risk of derailing the thread. If you want to talk about the stigmatisation of mental illness how about starting a separate thread?

Gymnopedie · 06/12/2024 17:28

OP please be very careful of being his advocate. It will be draining and if SS/NHS get wind of your concern for him they will never be off your back to get you to take him. I know it won't be ideal but let the system take its course.

And be prepared for your father to trowel on the guilt even thicker. He will want to make damn sure this doesn't impact him. Practise saying no you won't. He'll tell you that your brother wouldn't actually hurt DD it's just words.

Remember this is about protecting your DD. Don't ever expose her to your brother again.

Runskiyoga · 06/12/2024 17:31

Keep going OP, you matter and you are doing the right things. Still too much, probably, but baby steps.
Hospital beds for mental health are unicorns these days, and as soon as a mental health professional spots the personality elements here it will not happen (I agree he is escalating to get needs met, because of fear of abandonment). It's not his fault, but others rescuing him and getting burnt out is not the answer, nor is a hospital admission or medication. But that is not your circus. Respond positively only to mature adult to adult responsible communication. Look up Kauffman's Drama Triangle.

safetyfreak · 06/12/2024 17:36

LifeExperience · 06/12/2024 13:49

I have dealt with mental health issues my entire life, first with my brother and then myself. You could spend hours trying to come up with diagnosis after diagnosis, but the diagnosis is beside the point. The bottom line is that his behaviour is unacceptable and you must therefore no longer accept it.

You have been programmed your entire life by your father to take care of men's problems. In your father's mind, women serve and shut up. Your brother, for whatever reason, believes this, too. You must break that belief.

Your guilt over your brother is completely unwarranted. You are not responsible for ANY of the decisions he has made. You are not responsible for ANY of the decisions your father has made.

Your brother has confessed that he has thought of harming your daughter. That is the ultimate red line. Your brother has the audacity, the unmitigated gall, to expect you to take him back into your home (because he does think that) because in his mind he is the only person who matters, just as in your father's mind HE is the only person who matters. You and your daughter are nothing to them. I repeat, your daughter is nothing to them.

I have been where you are and the only solution is to go no contact. Completely. Your precious daughter needs that from you and dh. She deserves that. You cannot have your brother around your daughter again, ever.

You have nothing to feel guilty about, and bluntly, guilt is not the worst feeling. The loss of a child is the worst feeling. And please don't underestimate what a mentally ill person with disordered thinking might do--your daughter is not safe. Make her safe.

I agree with this,

Sorry to be harsh but this is OP fault, she has never placed boundaries in place for her brother. It is her husband and daughter who have suffered from this.

This is a man in his 50s, likely has a personality disorder who will feed off someone else once/if his sister stops with her emotional support.

NPET · 06/12/2024 17:44

Sorry - no immediate answer. But "a heartless cow"? NO WAY. I thought I was suffering with my boyfriends and sisters' boyfriends using me as a "sounding mat" but they're nothing compared to your problems!

GivingitToGod · 06/12/2024 17:54

StartupRepair · 02/12/2024 06:11

You poor thing. You sound like a lovely compassionate person who is at the end of her tether. You cannot fix your brother and you cannot do this at the expense of your own DD and DH.
You need to tell him and your parents clearly that it is no longer possible.

This
The situation isn't sustainable
I can empathize with being depressed, it's truly horrendous but your brother is clearly very self centred and has zero insight into his selfishness and expectations of you.
It's very worrying that he seems to have no understanding of the implications of taking so much sick time off work without consequences.
Does your brother have a case worker through mental health team?
You have a mountain of stuff going on OP, this cannot continue.
You need to address this with him head on..
To assume that he can stay at yours for indeterminate periods of time speaks volumes of his total lack of understanding of the implications for you and yours

Maia77 · 06/12/2024 17:57

I'm sorry you're going through this. There's only so much we can do to help other people and of course you want to be there for your brother and you have been helping him a lot, but sometimes we have to set boundaries to protect ourselves. That doesn't mean you're letting him down but you can't keep going on like this as it's having a massive negative impact on you and your family.

WishinAndHopin · 06/12/2024 18:02

OP, please take his threats to strangle your daughter seriously. Stop trying to minimise it. It was murderously vindictive. For God's sake please put your child first.

The reasons he worded it as if he is concerned by his own thoughts is 1) to make it sound less hostile 2) to make it sound less criminal, and 3) most of all to deny all responsibility for these feelings.

He has told you want he wants to do. Believe him. Don't end up with your daughter dead on the news and you in court for causing/allowing the death of a child.

He is certain to explain away his murderous statement and express love and compassion for your daughter to get back in your good books. Don't believe him. Then if this doesn't work, he will act like you're making an absolute mountain out of a molehill and punishing him for his mental illness. Don't listen to him. He has proven time and time again that he is extraordinarily manipulative.

As soon as he was threatened with being booted out, he was remarkably agreeable and understanding. This was purely to mollify you and get your guard down. In the next few days when it became clear you still meant it, he ramped up his apparent suffering and unstable behaviour. He is escalating and escalating because he's learned throughout his life that being as visibly anguished as possible gains maximum control of the people around him.

Other posters are correct that he was cleverly building a support network and putting down roots based on your home. All of this is perfectly deliberate.

Despite wanting everyone to know how mentally ill he is and that he needs all the TLC in the world, he fails to disclose his very serious diagnosis of a personality disorder. This is because professionals and laypeople will immediately understand that his behaviour is largely borne of controlling and manipulating people.

Twice he has expressed hostility towards your child. He couldn't even bear to talk about her with your parents, and now he supposedly is worried he won't be able to stop himself strangling her. He was also talking about uncontrollable rage. This is because he is jealous of your daughter taking up your attention, which to his mind, should be going on him. He sees her as the reason you won't continue to be his carer / narc fuel. He honestly sees himself as such a victim that he is entitled to your unconditional care and support. Anyone who stands in the way of that is the unreasonable one, not him.

Here's what you need to do:

  1. Apply for an injunction immediately. Get an emergency order: https://www.gov.uk/injunction-domestic-violence (yes, your brother expressing a desire to kill your child is domestic violence). This will mean he is arrested if he comes to your home.

  2. Inform the police of his expressed uncontrollable desire to strangle your child.

  3. Report the situation to social services. Don't assume the nurse will bother. Your daughter's life is in danger from this man. This will ensure that social services do not see you and your home as default support for him, and will ensure further protection for your daughter.

Edited to add: DO NOT advocate for him - as stated social services will use this as a reason to deny him professional support and care and try to palm him off on you. All the more reason to complete step 3).

Get an injunction if you've been the victim of domestic abuse

Apply for an injunction if you've been a victim of domestic abuse - non-molestation or occupation orders - who can apply, serving documents and attending a hearing.

https://www.gov.uk/injunction-domestic-violence

AuContraire · 06/12/2024 18:02

Is it to be assumed that he was worried about strangling DD, and feeling a rage, because she is the reason (he thinks) that you've said he can't stay?

murasaki · 06/12/2024 18:06

I think DD expressing her need for a study ( and well done her) made him think that she is 'stealing' his space as he sees it, and so he wants to get rid of her.

The truth is that he is entitled to no space and threatened her life. He can't come back. Ever.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 06/12/2024 18:10

They want him to return to his home city to continue his treatment there, but my brother is insisting he be admitted here. He thinks they're trying to find him a bed now

It doesn't matter what he "thinks", OP; the issue of which trust's on the hook to fund his treatment will come into this too, and since you've very wisely said he doesn't have a home with you, his own area it may have to be

As you mentioned there's nothing to stop you advocating for him, but clearly your own priority has to be keeping him away from your family

Lollypop25 · 06/12/2024 18:12

schmeler · 06/12/2024 16:33

I wasn't. It was called a reply. If you do not want a reply then do not make a statement! It isn't about you and your views yet here you are!

It's pretty distasteful to continually argue around the point of an emotionally manipulative man refusing to accept responsibility for himself well into his adulthood.

I'm not sure if you're projecting your own experiences on the situation here but no one could argue that OP hasn't done her absolute hardest up until now whether or not she decides to continue to advocate or cut ties.

You should probably consider arguing about personality disorders elsewhere.