Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

I can't cope with depressed brother being so reliant on me. Feel like a bitch for saying that.

789 replies

inigomontoyahwillcox · 02/12/2024 05:47

I'm so sorry - this going to be so long - but I need to get this out. I'm up with this awful cough/chest infection which makes it impossible to lie down and sleep. Been ill since last Tuesday. Have had virtually no sleep since then. Pretty sure a lot of you will think I'm a heartless cow, but I'm getting to my wits end.

Context. My brother (quite significantly older than me) has suffered from depression since he was a teen. He has been on antidepressants since then, except for a couple of occasions when he's taken himself off them for one reason or another, which have ended up in disaster. He lives about 2.5 hours away from me.

For some years now he has been spending more and more time at my house with my DH, DD and I. He lives alone and came to stay with us during lock down, and has often come to stay with us, sometimes for weeks, off and on since then when he's feeling low or had a crappy couple of weeks (e.g. work stress). I've always said to him of course he can come, how can I not, but he's often then stayed and stayed, prolonging his stay without discussing it with me - just declaring he's not going to go home for another week at the end of his planned stay.

He has a fantastic job in the civil service, but has had lot and lots of absences for various ailments over the past couple of years and they are understandably getting serious about his attendance. He seems to think this is very unfair and how they just don't understand. I've tried gently - but seriously - to explain that you can indeed be dismissed for repeated or lengthy absences.

In May this year he started getting some odd physical symptoms - balance issues/vertigo mainly (other very vague things like feeling cold, and out of it) - I rushed down there to him when this initially happened as he took himself to hospital thinking he was having a stroke. Ultimately anything serious was ruled out and after taking him to a few appointments for some further checks I drove him back to mine to stay. He decided that these symptoms were due to his antidepressant (that he'd been on for 15 years), so agreed with his GP to reduce his dose to an incredibly small one (questionable that it was even therapeutic anymore - it was 1/4 of the starting dose, he had been on double the starting dose for 15 years). His physical symptoms did clear up eventually - he put this down to this reduction in his antidepressants - I wasn't so convinced. I also voiced my concern that he was now effectively not on antidepressants and we all know how that had ended up in the past and that he needed to push to try another antidepressant if he didn't want to go back to his old one.

He eventually went back home and to work, and was there for a few months until he started experiencing stomach issues, now diagnosed as IBS (which I know is not fun - I've had it for years myself) and yet again took himself off work. He was working with his GP and a dietician and put on the FODMAP diet which he's still on. Again, he came to ours for a few weeks. His work were getting very ancy by this time and he started to do some hours remotely from ours as he had no choice. Eventually he went home again, he was home for a week only then for his depression to increase so I told him to get an emergency appointment with his GP who told him to double his dose last week. Well all hell broke loose (assuming side effects of increasing the dose). I've been ill for a couple of months now with all these bloody relentless viruses (also been very anemic for a lot longer and recently had a couple of infusions and currently undergoing tests to find out why - so you can imagine how rough I've been feeling), but last Tuesday I came down with proper flu (raging temp etc.) and have been in bed since and have been mainly off work (doing work when needed from bed). I never take time off work, honestly have to be at deaths door - have subsequently developed a chest infection and am on antibiotics. Got a call from my brother at 5:30am on Wednesday with him feeling awful saying I needed to drive down and collect him, after explaining I couldn't as I was ill asked to speak to DH and asked him to go. I said to DH that he couldn't, he had work plus he was helping me out with a work event in the evening which I obviously couldn't attend any more but he still needed to arrange some stuff and be there for a short while. I put my foot down and said he had to either drive, get the train or wait until we could drive to him and if he was in crisis to call his local crisis team immediately. He eventually said he would drive as he couldn't fit all the stuff he wanted to bring in a backpack so the train was out (so he'd get obviously decided at that point he was coming for a while).

Since he's been with us he has been waking me up every morning at silly-o'clock (e.g. 5-6), as he's been experiencing massive anxiety. I've been woken up three times now to him standing in our bedroom crying and saying he can't cope. I am getting about 2 hours of sleep per night due to this chest infection anyway, and have usually only just dropped off when he's waking me up. At this rate I'm never going to get better. DH had to stop him coming into our bedroom the other day when I had eventually managed to doze off. Anyway, called the local out of hours crisis team yesterday morning and sat with him whilst he spoke to them, they're seeing him this morning and have told him to register as a temporary patient at my local GP and they are hopefully going to make a plan going forward - e.g. moving to a new antidepressant (I hope). On the phone he said to them he was going to stay with me indefinitely (no discussion with me) and can't see himself doing his job for some months.

In the past when he's had a crisis like this he's decamped to our parents who look after him for months whilst he recovers and he finds a new job - but he's decided that he finds it too stressful to stay with them (they're getting on now as well). I can see what is going to happen. He is going to loose his job, loose his rented flat as a result and have nowhere to live but here with us. So, unemployed, living with us indefinitely. And what choice do I have?

It's really stressful when he stays with us - just the whole dynamic/routine of the household goes out the window. He has always been single and as a result his life revolves around himself, he spreads himself and his things around the house, and changes/moves/breaks thing (little things, but they all add up) and gets argumentative when I ask him not to do something. My home just doesn't feel like my home anymore; I can't spend evenings chilling out lying on the sofa in front of the telly with DH, as we often do, he's often lying on the sofa watching TV himself, he smokes although takes himself outside but his clothes smell of smoke. He is in our small spare room (well, he's on the sofa tonight for some reason) which we had just recently decked out as DD's study as her bedroom isn't really big enough for a desk; she's finishing her mocks tomorrow and has her GCSEs in May - she has ADHD and it's been incredibly challenging for her academically, but we'd really turned a corner recently and she's determined to get into 6th form, I'm so worried all of this is going to upheave her, stress her out and affect her performance; she's been so proud of her achievements recently and I think if she does badly now what little confidence she'd recently gained will disappear.

I am pretty sure a straw will break the camel's back and I will end up loosing it with him at some point, or just getting incredibly stressed and ill (stress usually manifests itself physically with me as I just try to ignore it and push on through - I've had my own mental health battles). But how can I effectively abandon my depressed brother? I love him dearly, and want him to be well, but he's come to rely on me so heavily that it's becoming too much. He's really not helped himself; taking so much time off work for spurious reasons and now he really needs the time off they are challenging him and his job is in jeopardy; him not taking my advice about not going cold turkey on the antidepressants without a plan to start a new one; just the assumption that we can constantly put our lives on hold. DH is being incredibly understanding - but I can even see him getting frustrated by my brother over the past few months. DH also had a huge mental breakdown last year and attempted suicide twice, he's only just got back on some sort of even keel about 6 months ago but is still recovering. Jesus, what if HE ends up breaking down again and then I've got 2 men in crisis to look after?! I've got my own full time stressful job to do as well, plus a neurodivergent daughter to keep on track. I'm terrified! I honestly don't know what to do for the best. He has very good friends but they don't live in the same city as him, but other than them and my parents, we're all he has.

What the fuck do I do?

OP posts:
Lallydallydune · 05/12/2024 11:12

CatHole · 05/12/2024 07:48

Well done.

My troubled sibling called last night, first time in ages. I put the phone down and gentle, mild mannered DH said ' what did he want'. Since we only get called.in the bad times.

It was a big confession but it wasn't the focus of the call. I haven't been part of his most recent recovery, I'm also not a problem but I think because he grew up together I am associated with troubled times. He's needed to break free from everything to just push forward building a more stable life.

Yes!
My brother also only calls me when something bad happens to him.

He never asks how I am doing

Lallydallydune · 05/12/2024 11:14

Too many brothers expect their sisters to look after them.

This is not the 1950s.

I was actually talking to a woman last month.

She was cooking a dinner and bringing it round to her brothers house. As he had depression..

Some one said something to me once and it stayed with me

People with mental heath issues can sometimes use sometimes use to manipulate you.

OriginalUsername2 · 05/12/2024 11:17

I’m so sorry you're going through this. I’ve read the whole thing.

Just when you thought you were getting through to your brother, he runs off down the road to get sympathy from someone else with a family and a young daughter. I was shocked to read that. He is incredibly selfish. I felt very sorry for him at first.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Lallydallydune · 05/12/2024 11:23

How old is your brother.

You said that he's older than you.

Lallydallydune · 05/12/2024 11:29

I was just thinking about this today. I have a similiar brother. I honestly feel like my brother has ruined a lot of my life. I still have sympathy for my brother too.

It's very very hard

I think women have subconsciously been trained to put men first. When we have to put ourselves first.

SpryCat · 05/12/2024 11:31

dont worry @inigomontoyahwillcox you’ve got an online support system.

You had a talk with your brother yesterday explaining you are at breaking point, your daughter explained her needs, you got the little boy tears and the asking for hugs (I am not saying men don’t/ can’t cry but his is all about guilt tripping and manipulation). You still gave him the same time frame and he can see you are nearing a breakdown, hear you are not budging even though he has cried/ asked for hugs. He knows his time at yours is coming to an end and then asks to speak to YOUR supportive friends and as he either hoping he can confide in them and gets lots of support that he is so unwell but you have abandoned him and other lies in the hope they take side and you are shamed by their disapproval into letting him stay indefinitely.
If that doesn’t work out then off he pops to your parents as the last resort. He will have broken up your friendship and you will be feeling devastated.

You need to get in touch with the wife, tell her that your brother phoned her husband up and explain what is happening that you are at breaking point, your brother is pretending that he will leave but trying to form a support network with gp, medical services and her family as a way of manipulating you into feeling you have to let him stay indefinitely. Tell her your daughter can’t study, you and your husband can’t cope and if they give him a key they may find he has moved in when they return home one day. Don’t be embarrassed you have to warn them and I’m sure the wife won’t want him in the house and her daughter feeling awkward. Say by all means take him out if you want to (I think by now her husband will be regretting promises and wife will hit the roof of lending keys out)
The week before Christmas your brother will be bashing his teeth his time is running out at yours so be prepared for the tears and tantrums. No matter what stick to your guns, no wavering and letting him stay for a few more days more as he will up the theatrics!
Stay firm x

SpryCat · 05/12/2024 11:45

Some people (not all) with mental health issues manipulate and gaslight to get their WANTS (not needs) met. Sympathy and support from other’s is like an addiction, they hone in to what they consider your weakness to get their own way and don’t care if it breaks you. They consider themselves to be the one and only person who matters and if those who were continually put on had a hard look they would see the thought and care was all one sided.

pizzaHeart · 05/12/2024 11:47

OP, your brother needs to go to your parents. He is absolutely not your responsibility and ( however cruel if might sound) they are the first port of call as a family, not you. And in a way they would be more successful to get him help than you because being elderly they would look more vulnerable for the system and more worthy of support.
I know you said to your brother about staying for a few weeks but it looks from your posts like you’ve reached crisis point and it’s all too much for you.
Im fuming at your father, he sounds very selfish, sorry. It’s his responsibility as a parent not yours, your responsibility is your DD.

Lallydallydune · 05/12/2024 11:53

I know someone who works in mental health.

She always says that it's not just the person with mental health that needs support, but their families need support too.

As I said I have a mentally ill sibling.

Having a mentally ill sibling has affected a huge part of my life. It's draining.

There's the constant fear I have that he will kill himself. But I think it's best not live in a state of constant fear, if he's going to do it he will do it and I can't stop him .

I'm angry with my brother and I also have sympathy for him

Mentally ill people can make you have an absolute breakdown yourself. I understand .

I've learned that I have to put myself first.

SpryCat · 05/12/2024 12:02

Op’s dad is selfish and self absorbed expecting wife to put his needs above everyone else’s but when their children were small she could of told him the kids needs come first! They BOTH turned their backs and let their youngest child try to shoulder their eldest child’s mental health problems, they still expect Op to neglect her own needs, her DH’s and DD’s so they can live in their own bubble.

Lallydallydune · 05/12/2024 12:05

SpryCat · 05/12/2024 12:02

Op’s dad is selfish and self absorbed expecting wife to put his needs above everyone else’s but when their children were small she could of told him the kids needs come first! They BOTH turned their backs and let their youngest child try to shoulder their eldest child’s mental health problems, they still expect Op to neglect her own needs, her DH’s and DD’s so they can live in their own bubble.

Yeah my parents are the same.

If i ever say that I want to focus on myself, on my life,

they say "but don't you care about your poor brothers problems"

No . I love myself more than I love him.

Gillettethebest · 05/12/2024 12:15

Lallydallydune · 05/12/2024 12:05

Yeah my parents are the same.

If i ever say that I want to focus on myself, on my life,

they say "but don't you care about your poor brothers problems"

No . I love myself more than I love him.

How much do your parents help with your “poor brothers” problems?

Lallydallydune · 05/12/2024 12:18

Gillettethebest · 05/12/2024 12:15

How much do your parents help with your “poor brothers” problems?

My parents do help him, in fairness.

My mother does a lot for him.

And then She wants me to help him aswell.

He doenst appreciate my mother's help. He's nasty to her.

I keep telling her that he's a grown man in his forties.
And that me and her don't have to be running around after him.

Gillettethebest · 05/12/2024 12:20

I have two older brothers, both single and if anything they are the ones who helped me out - financially and accommodation wise - when I was younger. It was never expected I’d look out for them?!

I can’t think of any of my friends who have brothers like the ones described - especially older brothers.

And it sounds like a lot of parents have failed their children by offloading their parental responsibilities.

Lallydallydune · 05/12/2024 12:21

Gillettethebest · 05/12/2024 12:20

I have two older brothers, both single and if anything they are the ones who helped me out - financially and accommodation wise - when I was younger. It was never expected I’d look out for them?!

I can’t think of any of my friends who have brothers like the ones described - especially older brothers.

And it sounds like a lot of parents have failed their children by offloading their parental responsibilities.

Yes but it sounds like neither of your older brothers have mental health issues.

Is that right?

That's the difference. If a man in a family is mentally unwell, the female relatives are definitely often expected to help look after them.

Gillettethebest · 05/12/2024 12:22

Lallydallydune · 05/12/2024 12:18

My parents do help him, in fairness.

My mother does a lot for him.

And then She wants me to help him aswell.

He doenst appreciate my mother's help. He's nasty to her.

I keep telling her that he's a grown man in his forties.
And that me and her don't have to be running around after him.

Edited

OK at least in your case your parents are helping.

Yes you’re quite right to draw those boundaries and love yourself more!

I mean if your mum wants to be a martyr about it, that’s on her but she shouldn’t be trying to recruit you as well.

Gillettethebest · 05/12/2024 12:25

Lallydallydune · 05/12/2024 12:21

Yes but it sounds like neither of your older brothers have mental health issues.

Is that right?

That's the difference. If a man in a family is mentally unwell, the female relatives are definitely often expected to help look after them.

Edited

I’d say in our family if anyone (male or female) has mental health difficulties to the extent they are struggling to function, there would be some element of expectation that we would help each other . So this works both ways not just one. I’ve seen it with some older female relatives being helped out.

In OPs case she is sounding the alarm telling her family she is on the verge of a nervous breakdown and her brother and Dad just don’t seem to understand she also needs support.

SpryCat · 05/12/2024 12:27

Your mum is not trying to get some help though is she @Lallydallydune , she trying to throw the whole responsibility your way.

SpryCat · 05/12/2024 12:32

You also knew at a young age @Lallydallydune to fight at being caged in taking on your parent’s problems, you knew they would sacrifice your right to your own life so they could be carefree.

Lallydallydune · 05/12/2024 12:34

Gillettethebest · 05/12/2024 12:25

I’d say in our family if anyone (male or female) has mental health difficulties to the extent they are struggling to function, there would be some element of expectation that we would help each other . So this works both ways not just one. I’ve seen it with some older female relatives being helped out.

In OPs case she is sounding the alarm telling her family she is on the verge of a nervous breakdown and her brother and Dad just don’t seem to understand she also needs support.

Hi gilettethebest you said there would be an expectation in your family to help.

But the thing with mental health issues is that they don't usually just occur for a couple of months or a year.

The person is mentally ill for their whole life .

My brother has been mentally ill since he was 14.

I remember being aged 12 and going to visit him in a psychiatric hospital every weekend.

It's not possible to care for mentally ill people for their whole life.

I've learned to leave it to the professionals.

LadyMacbethssweetArabianhand · 05/12/2024 12:35

OP, it looks like, where your brother is concerned, the apple didn't fall far from the tree. You are being used by your family to the detriment of your DH and dd. Get angry. His mental health issues are not yours to solve. There is no way he's going to leave in January without a drama concocted by him. Please alert the other family down the road that he may just move in to their house. If you don't, your friendship with them will probably never recover. It's time to harden your heart. All the tears and apparent listening was an attempt to get you to keep him in your home.

Lallydallydune · 05/12/2024 12:36

SpryCat · 05/12/2024 12:27

Your mum is not trying to get some help though is she @Lallydallydune , she trying to throw the whole responsibility your way.

I wouldn't say she throws the whole responsibility to me.

As she has gone down to my brothers flat and done his food shopping and cleaning for him recently.

She does ask me to help him more than I want though and I've said no.

Gillettethebest · 05/12/2024 12:37

Lallydallydune · 05/12/2024 12:34

Hi gilettethebest you said there would be an expectation in your family to help.

But the thing with mental health issues is that they don't usually just occur for a couple of months or a year.

The person is mentally ill for their whole life .

My brother has been mentally ill since he was 14.

I remember being aged 12 and going to visit him in a psychiatric hospital every weekend.

It's not possible to care for mentally ill people for their whole life.

I've learned to leave it to the professionals.

OK in the instances I’ve seen with friends and family they have been able to get back on their feet after a few months or years. The people I’m talking about may still struggle from poor mental health as many of us ,do but they don’t have to heavily depend on others for their whole life.

My point was also that it’s not necessarily women being expected to care for men in my family. It’s just family (and friends) helping each other out.

Dreammalildream · 05/12/2024 12:42

It's like he's preparing to dig himself in so you can't kick him out as someone said up thread. If you let him stay and arrange all his appointments and support near you, it's going to be a hell of a job to winkle him out when the time comes.

He needs to go now, imo.

Daleksatemyshed · 05/12/2024 12:42

Your DF and your DB are sadly very alike. Never of them sees you or your DM as people with their own lives and needs, just as someone to look after them. As pp have said, your DB is setting everything up to avoid going home, when it's time to leave he'll refuse because all his support network is local to you.
Your MH is suffering @inigomontoyahwillcox if you have a breakdown your DH and DD will suffer too and then your DB will have to go. I really hope it won't come to that but you need to consider your immediate family and yourself first. Don't set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm