I can't cope with depressed brother being so reliant on me. Feel like a bitch for saying that.

[inigomontoyahwillcox]

I'm so sorry - this going to be so long - but I need to get this out. I'm up with this awful cough/chest infection which makes it impossible to lie down and sleep. Been ill since last Tuesday. Have had virtually no sleep since then. Pretty sure a lot of you will think I'm a heartless cow, but I'm getting to my wits end.

Context. My brother (quite significantly older than me) has suffered from depression since he was a teen. He has been on antidepressants since then, except for a couple of occasions when he's taken himself off them for one reason or another, which have ended up in disaster. He lives about 2.5 hours away from me.

For some years now he has been spending more and more time at my house with my DH, DD and I. He lives alone and came to stay with us during lock down, and has often come to stay with us, sometimes for weeks, off and on since then when he's feeling low or had a crappy couple of weeks (e.g. work stress). I've always said to him of course he can come, how can I not, but he's often then stayed and stayed, prolonging his stay without discussing it with me - just declaring he's not going to go home for another week at the end of his planned stay.

He has a fantastic job in the civil service, but has had lot and lots of absences for various ailments over the past couple of years and they are understandably getting serious about his attendance. He seems to think this is very unfair and how they just don't understand. I've tried gently - but seriously - to explain that you can indeed be dismissed for repeated or lengthy absences.

In May this year he started getting some odd physical symptoms - balance issues/vertigo mainly (other very vague things like feeling cold, and out of it) - I rushed down there to him when this initially happened as he took himself to hospital thinking he was having a stroke. Ultimately anything serious was ruled out and after taking him to a few appointments for some further checks I drove him back to mine to stay. He decided that these symptoms were due to his antidepressant (that he'd been on for 15 years), so agreed with his GP to reduce his dose to an incredibly small one (questionable that it was even therapeutic anymore - it was 1/4 of the starting dose, he had been on double the starting dose for 15 years). His physical symptoms did clear up eventually - he put this down to this reduction in his antidepressants - I wasn't so convinced. I also voiced my concern that he was now effectively not on antidepressants and we all know how that had ended up in the past and that he needed to push to try another antidepressant if he didn't want to go back to his old one.

He eventually went back home and to work, and was there for a few months until he started experiencing stomach issues, now diagnosed as IBS (which I know is not fun - I've had it for years myself) and yet again took himself off work. He was working with his GP and a dietician and put on the FODMAP diet which he's still on. Again, he came to ours for a few weeks. His work were getting very ancy by this time and he started to do some hours remotely from ours as he had no choice. Eventually he went home again, he was home for a week only then for his depression to increase so I told him to get an emergency appointment with his GP who told him to double his dose last week. Well all hell broke loose (assuming side effects of increasing the dose). I've been ill for a couple of months now with all these bloody relentless viruses (also been very anemic for a lot longer and recently had a couple of infusions and currently undergoing tests to find out why - so you can imagine how rough I've been feeling), but last Tuesday I came down with proper flu (raging temp etc.) and have been in bed since and have been mainly off work (doing work when needed from bed). I never take time off work, honestly have to be at deaths door - have subsequently developed a chest infection and am on antibiotics. Got a call from my brother at 5:30am on Wednesday with him feeling awful saying I needed to drive down and collect him, after explaining I couldn't as I was ill asked to speak to DH and asked him to go. I said to DH that he couldn't, he had work plus he was helping me out with a work event in the evening which I obviously couldn't attend any more but he still needed to arrange some stuff and be there for a short while. I put my foot down and said he had to either drive, get the train or wait until we could drive to him and if he was in crisis to call his local crisis team immediately. He eventually said he would drive as he couldn't fit all the stuff he wanted to bring in a backpack so the train was out (so he'd get obviously decided at that point he was coming for a while).

Since he's been with us he has been waking me up every morning at silly-o'clock (e.g. 5-6), as he's been experiencing massive anxiety. I've been woken up three times now to him standing in our bedroom crying and saying he can't cope. I am getting about 2 hours of sleep per night due to this chest infection anyway, and have usually only just dropped off when he's waking me up. At this rate I'm never going to get better. DH had to stop him coming into our bedroom the other day when I had eventually managed to doze off. Anyway, called the local out of hours crisis team yesterday morning and sat with him whilst he spoke to them, they're seeing him this morning and have told him to register as a temporary patient at my local GP and they are hopefully going to make a plan going forward - e.g. moving to a new antidepressant (I hope). On the phone he said to them he was going to stay with me indefinitely (no discussion with me) and can't see himself doing his job for some months.

In the past when he's had a crisis like this he's decamped to our parents who look after him for months whilst he recovers and he finds a new job - but he's decided that he finds it too stressful to stay with them (they're getting on now as well). I can see what is going to happen. He is going to loose his job, loose his rented flat as a result and have nowhere to live but here with us. So, unemployed, living with us indefinitely. And what choice do I have?

It's really stressful when he stays with us - just the whole dynamic/routine of the household goes out the window. He has always been single and as a result his life revolves around himself, he spreads himself and his things around the house, and changes/moves/breaks thing (little things, but they all add up) and gets argumentative when I ask him not to do something. My home just doesn't feel like my home anymore; I can't spend evenings chilling out lying on the sofa in front of the telly with DH, as we often do, he's often lying on the sofa watching TV himself, he smokes although takes himself outside but his clothes smell of smoke. He is in our small spare room (well, he's on the sofa tonight for some reason) which we had just recently decked out as DD's study as her bedroom isn't really big enough for a desk; she's finishing her mocks tomorrow and has her GCSEs in May - she has ADHD and it's been incredibly challenging for her academically, but we'd really turned a corner recently and she's determined to get into 6th form, I'm so worried all of this is going to upheave her, stress her out and affect her performance; she's been so proud of her achievements recently and I think if she does badly now what little confidence she'd recently gained will disappear.

I am pretty sure a straw will break the camel's back and I will end up loosing it with him at some point, or just getting incredibly stressed and ill (stress usually manifests itself physically with me as I just try to ignore it and push on through - I've had my own mental health battles). But how can I effectively abandon my depressed brother? I love him dearly, and want him to be well, but he's come to rely on me so heavily that it's becoming too much. He's really not helped himself; taking so much time off work for spurious reasons and now he really needs the time off they are challenging him and his job is in jeopardy; him not taking my advice about not going cold turkey on the antidepressants without a plan to start a new one; just the assumption that we can constantly put our lives on hold. DH is being incredibly understanding - but I can even see him getting frustrated by my brother over the past few months. DH also had a huge mental breakdown last year and attempted suicide twice, he's only just got back on some sort of even keel about 6 months ago but is still recovering. Jesus, what if HE ends up breaking down again and then I've got 2 men in crisis to look after?! I've got my own full time stressful job to do as well, plus a neurodivergent daughter to keep on track. I'm terrified! I honestly don't know what to do for the best. He has very good friends but they don't live in the same city as him, but other than them and my parents, we're all he has.

What the fuck do I do?

"He really doesn't have significant care needs - he has significant demands though.". Love that !

What a mess OP.

SIbling multiple suicide threats. I think we all need some proper advice about this but I'm going to plough ahead with annecdote.
My mental health nurse friend said, in general, those that threaten don't, success is often silent.
My experience is that. We've had multiple threats over the years, high alerts at Christmas. The most recent and escalated attempt, he actually got in touch with 6 different friends and relatives, left the door on the latch and was no where near the limit.
I now push him firmly back to professional services including the police because me being caring and there hasn't worked long term for him.

It will not be easy, but you CAN and SHOULD send him out of your home - for the sake of the little family you have created, your actual responsibility. And then NEVER let him stay again. A firm NO, that doesn't work with our family. No further reasons, no negotiations, even a refusal to discuss it further.... Please remember your stance on this will condition YOUR daughter... Decide now if you want her to put HER needs or the needs of men first in her life... Will you be ok if she follows your lead? Xx

Bloody hell @CatHole - that must have screwed with your head something rotten.

Hell no, I wouldn't! I did have a chat with her yesterday and explained that her uncle would stay for a couple of weeks to support him but then I am sending him home and a potted version of the reasons why (i.e. he is a grown man and needs to manage his own life and responsibilities). I said she was my first priority, along with myself and DH. She understood and was quite relieved. So I must remember that each time I'm wavering.

Absolutely. And it's clear from the lovely people on this thread I'm not the only one.
My parents have the golden child halo over my brother, which is also not healthy.
I do feel sorry for him but it was a wake up call realising he has never, over decades, come close to supporting me or my family physically or emotionally. So although I still jump, I do sit back down again.

She understood and was quite relieved. So I must remember that each time I'm wavering.

Yes, do. If it is easier to hold a boundary for her than for you, that’s fine. Be a warrior on that boundary ❤️

You need to remind yourself you, your dh and dd can’t keep putting your brother’s need first, you are all at breaking point. That doesn’t mean your selfish or uncaring it means you all can’t cope, your brother has remained single and he is his only priority even when he is well. You married, had a child and have other priorities than just being your brother’s carer that disrupts your household when he is unwell. You have got to the point where you have stretched yourself for so long that your health and mental health and is at breaking point as well as your husband’s and daughter’s. No one wants to go home or is able to prioritise their own needs because your brother is leeching up all the attention for himself just like your father.

Op your telling your daughter she is your first priority but it’s just lip service, you know it will be a complete nightmare getting him to leave so you yourself can sweep it under the carpet for another day. You need to prioritise your little family now as you’re just delaying the inevitable. If your brother needs to be cared for 24/7 then he needs to go somewhere he can be professionally looked after or to your parents and then learn to stand on his own two feet whilst getting help from his gp/ crisis team. What happens if something happens to you? Your parents will shove the responsibility on your daughter’s shoulders and she will follow your lead so you need to act now and stop the cycle of taking on other people’s responsibilities. Your brother is capable of looking after himself but you have been made to feel it’s your job since the age of seven!

@inigomontoyahwillcoxwhat a nightmare. I have had similar recently with my brother being in crisis. It's our instinct to want to help... But I've had wise friends reminding me to set boundaries and to prioritise my own DH and DC, and not to feel guilty for that. We can only give of ourselves what we can afford to give, and it sounds as though you already have enough to cope with.

Well done OP. You're navigating this really well

Tell him you're worried he'll catch your chest infection and whooping cough . Might be safer for him to be at your parents?? Then cough all over him repeatedly.

Start telling your father that DH insists you put him first like he insists his wife puts him first, the DD comes next so brother needs to go to them.

Starting using his own selfish attitude against him.

You have been conditioned from early childhood to ignore your own feelings and needs. Your sense of duty and commitment is skewed entirely away from your own well-being towards the needs of your father and brother. That isn’t right.

For the sake of your precious daughter, you must reframe your whole value system and demonstrate to her that her needs as a young woman are vitally important. (I know you have been trying to do this) You have to show her that you are putting her first by consciously avoiding and removing any obstacle to her development and achievement. Her home life should be positive and peaceful. Your brother is a massive obstacle to your health, your marriage and your ability to do that and to keep going with your career -as well as to your daughter’s well-being.

Staying with you isn’t even helping him either …just reinforcing the idea he should off load on you, burden you and look to you for reasons to exist. It’s far far too much. You aren’t a trained, experienced mental health professional. You have your own career and family to consider. Nobody is benefitting as it is now.

I would walk out of the room as soon as your DB even starts to get irritated or angry with your hospitality or attempts to help him. Ask him …no, tell him, to pack his bags and leave, no argument. You have come to the end of your capacity for absorbing his problems and need help yourself, probably just as much as he does.

You are not his mother. He isn’t a child. He only has himself to consider. There are three of you. You can’t live his life for him. It’s up to him what he does with his life, even if he is mentally unwell. You can’t carve out his road ahead for him. Only he can do that. Only he can find solutions that he can stick with.

He needs to rethink his own value system which he has inherited from his father and the only way to make him think about that is to send him home…shock him into thinking about it.
I have a feeling he doesn't respect women very much OP, hence his lack of relationships. He is an adult now and so has a responsibility to rethink how he treats other people and to rethink his expectations of you. And of the NHS. At some point he must take responsibility and accountability for himself. He must hang onto his job if he possibly can. That should be his focus. Working will help him more than anything else….in a job he loves especially. His focus should be working towards that himself. The sooner the better.

Ignore your father saying that realistically your brother will be with you until after Christmas. No he won’t !
Tell your father and your brother that he must go home to his own GP and mental health support system by the end of this week as you are on the verge of a breakdown yourself and can no longer support him. No argument.

Tell him he is welcome to join you again for Christmas Day if and only if he is understanding of your position, helpful, positive and contributing instead of depleting you all. Tell him that if he is still unwell, he should double his efforts to accept help from his GP and get better and you will see him in the new year instead.

OP, your brother can’t carry on living this way. It isn’t helping him at all.
He must learn to stop treating you like a doormat….like a servant to his mental and emotional health. You are his kicking boy the same as your mum has been your father’s kicking boy all her married life.
You simply aren’t equipped to help him and must tell him that.
You do have to act decisively and learn to ignore the fear, and guilt which is only there because your father conditioned you to look for it, accept it and try to fix it to the detriment of yourself.

Please tell him to leave and then restore peace to your household. Get some rest before finding therapy for yourself.

I’ve had this in my own family and seen it in others . You’ve gone above and beyond for your brother and it’s severely impacting your life and that of your own family. It’s time to draw some firm boundaries. Your parents need to take over and the relevant authorities need to step up and offer more support. I’m afraid you’re going to have to spell it out to your brother that you can’t have him to stay any longer, nor can your answer phone calls early in the morning. If he has a crisis he needs to call his GP or crisis team in future. I know it’s really hard but you need to step away now.

My heart breaks imagining you as a seven year old child, your parents left you to deal with your brother’s mental health, they should of been caring for him themselves, going to the gp, seeking help for him. As he got older he could have been taught coping strategies instead they left it for you to deal with, a small child who was too young to cope with it all to enable your mum to put your dad first. I’m sure you got lots of praise and they were relieved they didn’t have to deal with it and they conditioned you to forget yourself and put everyone else first!
I hope my previous posts don’t seem harsh but I can see you are expected, guilt tripped to now put your brother before yourself, husband and daughter and none of you are coping. Don’t be an enabler like your mum and put your brother before everyone else like she did with your dad.

Sadly agree. I don't think you actually are prioritising DD at present. Personally I'd be sending DB right over to your parents after the events of the last two days.

This is a lifelong pattern, OP is a human, changing everything in 48h is almost impossible and she has made some big steps already.

Yes, this is also true. None of these things are in opposition to each other.

This is somewhat tongue in cheek but sounds like you'd be better off if your mum moved in with you and brother moved in with Dad - they can inflict themselves on each other.

If you've thought more about it and you're not happy with brother staying longer, it's ok to revise the plan.

You don't have to be responsible for him.

Sounds like none of your family are bothered about prioritising you at all.

Op will of course do things in her own, I think it’s become clear reading the thread that OP’s brother picks and chooses what he can and can’t do when he is depressed. He’s incapable to look after himself, needs to be waited on hand and foot and expects all OP’s attention so he can talk about himself as he feels it’s everyone’s responsibility to cater to him when he’s depressed bar his. He’s incapable of seeing or caring how his presence in the house is affecting everyone. He is capable of waking people up at 5.30 though! He’s capable of driving to OP’s but the next day needs to be chauffeured to an appointment and if need be (because he can’t stay at Op’s) he can drive to their parents, ignoring that they have refused and guilt them into staying so he can put his feet up whilst his mum is waiting on him hand and foot and trying to fix him.
He is as selfish and manipulative and give zero fucks for anyone but himself. After how annoyed he was that someone had said something about it being hard for your daughter to study with him there I would’ve chucked him out there and then.

I also think he has POTS

What is POTS?

I don't think it is helpful for anyone to start speculating on diagnoses. There have been several very specific diagnoses suggested on this thread, including B12 deficiency, autism and POTS (whatever that is).
Obviously we only have a basic outline of the man's difficulties. For each of us this basic outline naturally triggers thoughts about conditions related to our own health difficulties or those of family members, etc. But there are a whole range of other possibilities, and only this man's family and care team are in a position to even begin to assess these.

So your brother is doing exactly what your Dad does and demands attention and care from you with his significant demands, he has sidelined your DH and DD in their own home and forced his way in when they are currently having their own significant struggles. Does your brother's struggles increase significantly when your attention and care is needed elsewhere? I'm not asking that to be cruel to your brother, but I too have a family member that acts out when others are needing support, up to and including calling out ambulances for a "collapse" and then refusing medical attention, this has happened multiple times. Her behavior escalates when others are needing care and support, she must be the focus of attention at all times. I think when things are quieter in your life you may want to take time to get support for yourself OP to unravel some of this. You cannot continue to support everyone or you risk your own wellbeing.

So your brother is doing exactly what your Dad does and demands attention and care from you with his significant demands, he has sidelined your DH and DD in their own home and forced his way in when they are currently having their own significant struggles

Totally agree. That’s why DBro is lashing out if DD’s needs are mentioned, he has to have his self image of being the only one to need help. Otherwise he might have to contemplate that he was actually being selfish