Frustrations with school - wwyd?

[whyschoolwhy]

My son goes to a school that teaches from reception to sixth form. It is rated outstanding and is known for having excellent results and instilling good behaviours from day one. DS is happy there and the teachers have done wonders with helping him settle in.

However, my gripe with the school is that they do little to nothing in the way of parental inclusion. In reception there was a nativity play, and we get to go and watch sports day each year, but that's been pretty much it in terms of opportunities for parents to see what their children are doing. At the end of each school year they do an excursion and ask for parent volunteers, but only accept around 6. And in year one my son happened to join a dance club so I was able to go and watch him do a short performance with them. Otherwise, nothing. We don't get invited to assemblies or to do any activities with the children.

I don't want to be a pain in the arse for them - I know teachers are under a lot of stress these days and have to do all sorts of paperwork and reports and other work besides teaching. But I can't help but feel they could do something? Let us join an assembly once a term? Run a Christmas craft event for parents and children? Sing some carols for us? I just feel there's such a short time that they're little and parents get the opportunity to see them in the school setting, and it bothers me that I'm missing out on these things.

I'm not really sure what to do though. I don't want to be kicking up a stink and don't know that it would achieve much anyway. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[post edited by MNHQ for privacy reasons]

But I'm guessing parents can help with that at weekends and evenings. During the school day might be the issue if they work or have other commitments. Might be worth getting like-minded parents to petition the school for more parent involvement. Good luck

And this is why I didn’t choose an “outstanding” school that gets excellent results. Lots of homework needing parental help is the sort of thing you signed up for when you chose that sort of school. If you want a school that has lots of parental involvement and opportunities to be in school, less homework etc then you need to make different choices - surely you realised when you looked around schools and did your research what you were signing up for?

I’d be horrified if my y2 child even had homework (beyond reading) much less missed playtime to do it - but then my children go to a “good” school with distinctly average results and some children with problematic behaviour. I love it, they love it, but it certainly wouldn’t suit all families.

Oh that sounds really sad!!

My DCs are 6th form now but at primary we had so much involvement, it was lovely! I was a SAHM so easy to attend stuff, but we had sports day, plays, xmas events, concerts, harvest festival, monthly parents assemblies/awards ceremonies, trips to local things where parent helpers were asked for, discos where ditto, ice lolly sales in summer etc etc etc....

Plus we went in to read with the children on friday mornings, and I used to check spellings etc. Obvs needed DBS for that.

I get many parents can't engage as they are working, but YANBU, I loved all the things we did. Your school sounds very strange that they don't......

@Thedishwasherbroke no I didn't realise. As I said, even at the welcome evening for reception we were told that there would be opportunities for parents to come in. It just didn't happen.

It’s an excellent school for a reason because the teachers are focussed on teaching not writing plays or making scenery or costumes.

you seem to have some idyllic preconceptions about ‘ parental school engagement’. See your child outside of school.

If it's an outstanding school, it may not want to take the time out of the curriculum for rehearsing plays, making craft things to sell at fayres etc.

They may need to spend all of their time learning about fronted adverbials.

Dh worked in an outstanding school where every single lesson was expected to be outstanding. It was hard, narrow and not fun. Staff had no capacity to want to organize anything above and beyond academic study.
Obviously not all outstanding schools are like that, (where he is now teaches DT from y1 and they get half a days mountain biking too and still manage to be outstanding) but some are.

If your child is happy then you're winning!

Based on the responses to this thread, these idyllic preconceptions appear to be the norm for most. What's your experience of primary school parental involvement?

@whyschoolwhy It’s not an idyllic preconception at all. It’s normal to have some celebration at Christmas to which parents are invited. It’s actually reasonable to ask the head if such events are planned in the future if they promised them? Can you access past newsletters to see what has been organised previously? What are their Christmas plans?

That's appallingly bad teaching! If I were a parent I would be asking why this was done. Homework should not affect in any way the day that follows it - should never be of the 'find out' variety, either.

@Grammarnut i agree completely
But our children's primary school uses the 'find out' type every single holiday and half term for every single year group
Do you happen to have easy links to hand on why this is so rubbish? Parent group is trying to give the parent governors some info ahead of homework policy review...

This is definitely a stupid question but by "find out" homework, do you mean homework where children have to do some sort of research? And it's bad because not all children will have access to what they need to carry out that research?

Have our school! They’re always demanding inviting parents to come in the middle of the school day when we’re both at work (often with about a week’s notice). Cake sales and uniform sales and celebration assemblies and Christmas bazaars and Christmas discos and parent open day and and and… drives me bananas as I don’t want my 5yo to be the only one without a parent there…

Yes, I mean homework where children have to do some sort of research. Not all children will have access to what they need to do that research and so some are disadvantaged - that is unjust. Not that I like research anyway if teaching children, they have neither the knowledge nor the tools to do it - research is based on already acquired knowledge. Explicit instruction, with plenty of teacher talk and questions, discussion in class and then practise, rehearsal and recall, is what I favour - based on cognitive load theory.

Ours only does nativity in KS1 then a leavers' shown in Year 6. There are also Harvest and Christmas concerts so a couple of short performances a year.

There's a leavers' assembly as well parents can go to. No other assemblies and I'd find the idea quite odd. They also do a drop-in once a term where you can go early and see all their books. It's a totally guilt trip for working parents and is more moaned about than enjoyed.

OP's school sounds fine. Going in for craft afternoons sounds awful. I'm delighted we have no such thing.

Just to be clear, it wasn't because I couldn't be bothered to help with homework - it just never occurred to me (my parents never helped any of us). However, museum visits, music lessons, swimming, water sports, football, netball etc all done and supported by both parents. Just not homework - though I think my ex might have explained some maths occasionally (maths teacher).

I suggest you read Greg Ashman on substack, mainly on cognitive load theory, but also why 'find out' types of homework disadvantage those children most in need of support - Ashman supports explicit teaching rather than progressive methods (which include DC doing their own 'research') - he is not against children researching, but points out this needs a deep knowledge base and ought not to be the main means of teaching/learning. His site also has access to Andrew Old and Christine Christodoulis.

@whyschoolwhy If you really do want to do something about this join/form a PTA and start organising events. Teachers have enough to do as it is.

Interestingly as the thread has gone on it seems the teachers at most other schools do find the time.

And the PTA isn't going to be able to organise a Christmas play.

Yes, PTA’s can do this. I know of examples locally. If you want change you have the power to do something about it. Good luck!

Yes, parents helping with homework is definitely a recent thing... my kids are genzennials btw

I helped my DC learn to read. Also with maths. I totally favour practicing what they have learnt though. My DD1 had no homework at all at junior school. Head didn’t believe in it. They had an optional history project once a year. They got in special books from the school library service and the local library was teed up too. This was all free but obviously took some time. The best bit of no homework was all the free time for activities!

Parents should not really be doing a school concert or play. They would run into safeguarding issues. The OPs school should do something lead by the teachers. Especially if they said they did this sort of a activity which is great for confidence.

Here we go, absolute classic. Got a message 5 minutes ago to say there's a drop-in next Wednesday so we can come and see our children's work. I'm working, DH is working. Far too late to get out. So we will have two sad children and two parents feeling guilty.

I'd far rather OP's school where that sort of a thing wasn't happening and not have to explain to my children why we can't drop everything and just pop in.

@whyschoolwhy

And the PTA isn't going to be able to organise a Christmas play

PTA organised the Christmas disco, summer fair & helped a lot at sports day at my children's primary. They also used to organise a hamper each main term as a fundraiser. Also leavers arrangements for Year 6 were done by parents - hoody, year book, social. So PTA absolutely can organise these things.

I don't believe they could host a play or a concert.

I think I would have preferred the school to teach history rather than set up a project once a year - not much learning would done for many children experiencing that rather than an explicity taught and tested curriculum. History is important, being the passing on of the culture in which one lives, and without which understanding how that culture works, that society works, is difficult.

@Grammarnut They did teach history! This was optional to add a layer if dc was interested. Mine was. Other dc not. So we looked at Roman warfare, Victorian prisons and punishment and a few other topics I’ve forgotten. My main point it that we didn’t have night after night of homework and virtually no parental input from y3. Absolutely no missing break because dc hadn’t completed something. My DDs gained more from doing their orchestras and choirs, dance, swimming, skiing and Brownies.