Frustrations with school - wwyd?

[whyschoolwhy]

My son goes to a school that teaches from reception to sixth form. It is rated outstanding and is known for having excellent results and instilling good behaviours from day one. DS is happy there and the teachers have done wonders with helping him settle in.

However, my gripe with the school is that they do little to nothing in the way of parental inclusion. In reception there was a nativity play, and we get to go and watch sports day each year, but that's been pretty much it in terms of opportunities for parents to see what their children are doing. At the end of each school year they do an excursion and ask for parent volunteers, but only accept around 6. And in year one my son happened to join a dance club so I was able to go and watch him do a short performance with them. Otherwise, nothing. We don't get invited to assemblies or to do any activities with the children.

I don't want to be a pain in the arse for them - I know teachers are under a lot of stress these days and have to do all sorts of paperwork and reports and other work besides teaching. But I can't help but feel they could do something? Let us join an assembly once a term? Run a Christmas craft event for parents and children? Sing some carols for us? I just feel there's such a short time that they're little and parents get the opportunity to see them in the school setting, and it bothers me that I'm missing out on these things.

I'm not really sure what to do though. I don't want to be kicking up a stink and don't know that it would achieve much anyway. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[post edited by MNHQ for privacy reasons]

@elizzza I want to see my son in the school setting. That's the whole point of the thread, mate.

For those wondering, there are a few state 3-19 schools in Wales.

I think they're a way of tackling small local populations by using the same site all through.

I think this is a pay off for a successful academic school.

Schools like this won’t want parents in and put on a half arsed production. I’ve worked in schools like this and because parental expectations were so high, they wouldn’t ever do anything less than excellent to avoid complaints. And that means loads of time rehearsing and not doing curriculum subjects. And then that would impact results/progress.

I completely understand why you feel as you do - but if you want a different experience then you compromise elsewhere.

@Scarydinosaurs Ive certainly seen prep schools like this. Parents are paying and think DC are a cut above the local primary dc, but never at a state school. As I worked in Education, I was invited to lots of Christmas shows that weren’t very polished! The important thing was that they happened. I think very few schools swerve a Christmas production or carol service.

The most important thing about events such as shows is confidence the dc gets. It’s partly about parental engagement of course, but schools can have school/parent feedback sessions, surveys, newsletters parents evenings and that’s good enough for ofsted without parents in school regularly.

I’ve worked in both (always state). And send my children to one that things are rarely polished but children do lots of things parents are allowed to come in and watch/participate.

It’s definitely borne out of not wanting to deal with complaints from parents/school image.

@Scarydinosaurs is correct

I completely understand why you feel as you do - but if you want a different experience then you compromise elsewhere.

You need to understand how much effort goes into these things. It takes teacher away from what they're supposed to be doing.

I get it I think OP. I was all set to say that what you have is the norm but looking at my DC's school (primary, two form entry):

2x parents' evenings a year
Harvest play
Nativity/xmas play
Sports day
2 fairs a year

And then various evening PTA things.

Seconding the suggestion to join the PTA. I'm not even especially involved and I'm in most weeks to sort the bloody shed or set up for a bake sale.

I would just like to clarify that we do get parents evenings, and the PTA does a Christmas fair. I'm sorry if I've been misleading on that front. The types of engagement I was looking for was to be able to see him in some sort of show or to be able to help out with an activity like crafting or carol singing. I may get raked over the coals now, as a parents evening and a fair are at least opportunities to go into the school. But it's those events like harvest festival and Christmas plays that we're missing out on (we get one of each over the whole of primary).

My DDs attended 5 Primary schools...

None had a Harvest festival (I think that's only church schools?)
Christmas plays in Receprion and Yr1/2
Then a few years of nothing (thanks Covid). Leavers assembly in Yr6. DD2 had a Summer play as she was in the drama club.

In Reception there was stuff like a mothers day event, but not in older years.

Governors/Trustees are strategic not operational and really shouldn’t involve themselves in things like this.

@MyNameIsErinQuin I think it is a matter of strategy though.

@whyschoolwhy It is not. What a school does during the school day and how it fulfills its obligations to parents are down to the Head. These are operational decisions. Governors cannot direct a head to do a Christmas play.

I would be disappointed about no Christmas play every year, or a music event, but governors are not able to insist on it. It’s overstepping their role.

If you want nativity, carols, harvest and Easter, you do need a CofE or Catholic school. There will be greater involvement of the church in such events.

I do think dc should be given opportunities to speak and sing in public for educational reasons and I agree what you have is limiting. However being a governor won’t change the operational role of the Head and, unfortunately, you probably misunderstand the role of governors if you think they can change this.

It really isn’t. There may be a broad strategy of improving parental engagement somewhere but how it’s done is operational.

This seems to be normal for state primaries. It's partly why we're going private.

I'm presuming this is an independent school. Is there a parent association you could join? In my experience parents have the opportunity to join in via the parents/friends association.

@Hottoffeesauce OP says it’s not. It’s state.

Haven't read all replies, but as a teacher this sounds normal. There are tricky things about events for parents..

• The students whose parents can't attend, or won't attend because they don't care, or aren't in their children's lives to attend ... said students are then understandably upset & embarrassed that they have no one versus their friends who have proud parents in attendance
• Schools have safeguarding procedures. An event with parents in the school requires risk assessments and safeguarding issues can arise. If these events aren't too regular this is more accommodating for schools in this respect

Sounds balanced to me. A school is for your child. Yes it is nice for parents to see what is happening, but we have to balance that with the frighteningly high percentage of students who haven't got such enthusiasm at home.

I’m in the opposite situation. Youngest's school are excessive with expecting parental involvement and those of us who have commitments when the kids are in school are vilified for not doing their part.

Theres something every fortnight. They want parents in doing stuff, there’s plays, assemblies, fairs, every bloody potential day of something marked, discos, concerts and so much more. They phone parents up after asking the kids what they do for a living and ask them to come and talk give classes/workshops based on their jobs. They want us in reading and doing maths with the classes. It’s as if they think we don’t have jobs to go to and the guilt is strong when your kid comes home saying they felt bad because you couldn’t make it.

I’d love a hands off school.

Reception to sixth form seems odd, is this an independent school?
DSs went through a large three from entry primary school. We had Christmas performances from nursery - y3 and a school play in y6, and once a term assembly or classroom visit and then a musical performance in y4, 5 and 6. Plus various bits like come in and see this artwork (and then buy it for a tenner). Plus swimming help needed every week and school trips etc. Plus once a term parent teacher forums where we could raise issues.
It doesn’t seem enough to me. Once a year Xmas is a bare bare minimum.

Sorry just caught up and see it’s a state school. What kind of state school goes all the way through?
Personally I would move him to a smaller more nurturing primary school. This seems like a results driven sausage factory.

If they did as many events as you seem to demand want then many, many parents would be simply unable to attend.

To me, it sounds like you want to find out what your dc is doing during the day. Maybe as suggested by a previous pp do some volunteering but if you want to hear your child read, then do that at home.

My dcs’ primary did a Christmas thing and the usual summer fair etc. It was enough. They really haven’t suffered as a result. Even if you did move schools, most secondaries are very hands off and there will be even fewer opportunities to come and help with crafting.

@StinkyWizzleteets Some of the events you list are surely PTA led? Discos and fairs steely? They could not have vast numbers of parents in school due to logistics. Few schools have time to administer it. I’ve seen a handful of parents go in but don’t beat yourself up about this - the local GP and hospital consultants never did anything. As you would expect. Most of the time they are aiming at non working parents. I’ve rarely seen full time working parents do anything except turn up to evening events. Totally ok and dc do accept this readily. It really is ok not to engage in daytime visits.

To give you the opposite perspective, in just this term each of my children have a trip parents can volunteer on, a class assembly parents are invited to, a class concert/production and a parents evening.

There is also a whole school harvest festival, whole school carol service, whole school Christmas craft event, two coffee mornings with the headteacher, multiple opportunities to help with the school garden, a community wide Christmas Fair, a “read with your child at home time” event every month for KS1 and EYFS and a whole school sports event.

I enjoy this level of involvement but it’s a lot of time and lots and lots of working parents or parents with young siblings complain about it. There’s always lots of disappointed children at things like reading events because so few parents can attend. Schools can’t win, and to be honest I’ve no idea how my kids’ school resources all these events!

Maybe since it sounds like you are craving parent kid time you need to do this in your time. Schools are about learning and not facilitating this time. School sounds fine to me.

I’m in a couple of minds about this. On the one hand I can understand wanting to be able to go into school a bit more. I am a bit horrified by the idea of going in to do Christmas crafts but being allowed to watch an assembly doesn’t sound like it would create much work.

On the other hand the school is high performing and your child has settled in well. Super! There is a chance that the head / SLT considers parents coming into school to be a bit of a nuisance - quite often they want them to be interested and engaged at home (helping with reading etc) but then to let them do their thing when the children are in school.

More generally, I rather think that parents have a budget for the number of complaints they can send in (provided there are no serious issues). It’s fine to contact the school when Max has pushed your child down the stairs .,. but if you have complained several times about non serious things then whoever gets the emails will have their heart sink to get yet another email.