People of the left, can we learn some lessons from Trump's win please?

[Outandinbout]

And other things, like Brexit, the disaster that was Jeremy Corbyn and his campaign.

Whilst there will be multi-factorial reasons for the way all these votes went, one of the reason, imo, is that far too many people on the left think anyone who disagrees with them is thick and racist. Do you remember that mock advert for Labour during JCs campaign? ' You are thick and racist - Vote Labour!'. That raised laughs because it resonated with how people felt about the Left.

Just stop being so bloody certain you are right and everyone else is wrong and start bloody listening to people who voted the way you don't want them to. Figure out why that is. Realise they actually have some legitimate concerns. Find ways to address these.

Because, and I can't believe I actually have to point this out, insulting people is not the way to win them over. Addressing their concerns is.

Because its not smart to sit there smugly thinking you are always right, even when voters are repeatedly disagreeing with you. It feels nice to think that, yes. But all that means is that you lack the courage to move yourself out of your psychological comfort zone. Its lazy, not smart. And it shows a distinct lack of intellectual curiosity.

I'm pretty pissed at Trump winning as I support Ukraine. I think the Left in America needs to look pretty hard at itself as to why a candidate such as Trump has won. And the left in the UK has lessons to learn too.

From the outside looking in - it would seem both Democrats and Republican parties have serious internal problems.

They ran an election - with a free choice and their electorate chose Trump and the Republican party. I don't fully understand it - but that is what they did.

I do think they have main stream media problems, education problems - social media problems and wide spread discontent especially as living costs have risen .

However I think they got a high voter turn out again and Trump got more votes - so yes the democrats do have some blame because they got fewer votes and they need to work out why so next time they win.

Ha ha thats irrelevant, just like Remainers banging on about "polling shows people think it was a mistake to leave the EU...."

It doesn't matter, all that matters is the election result, not an opinion poll.

There wont be another GE for another 5 years, so perhaps its the 'right that need to look at why Labour managed to overturn their worst defeat in living memory in 2019 (despite some ridiculous gender views) and decimated right wing parties just 5 years later.....

Yes, it's the economy, stupid. As one pp on another thread put it.
People want lower inflation, a better economy, border controls, housing etc.

It was a loveless election, we all knew for about a year before that it would happen.

Labour will be out of power for at least 2 terms after this.

They do, across all issues. I really wish they were programmed to give people a balance of views on a topic they are interested in. Its pisses me off as it actually makes it hard for me to get fed information on the 'other side' of any argument. And you need to hear both sides as otherwise how do you know your opinion is your opinion?

Surely the lesson is that the Left can no longer play by the rules.

I mean, they are constantly held to a far higher standard than Trump ever even attempts to meet, why bother.

why try to explain that the worlds problems are complex, not simple to fix. Just lie, make up anything, it really doesn’t seem to matter.

Trump demonstrated on Jan 6 21 that the right response to losing an election is to attempt a violent coup. He paid no price for that, so clearly that must be a lesson to learn from too?

Preparations were being made to ensure that if Kamala won the result would immediately be challenged, both through legal means and through a mass disinformation campaign alleging that voter fraud stole the election. The Right feels that it must win at any cost, and if Democratic principles and institutions stand in the way they need to be attacked.

Are these the lessons the Left should be learning? One side still thinks it is in a boxing match with a referee and rules, but their opponent is coming equipped for a knife fight down a dark alley.

It’s depressing but the genie isn’t going back in the bottle. These tactics have been shown to work.

...but the left still won, which blows a whole in the OPs somewhat contentious argument that its the left that needs to learn.

Its not, or rather not in the UK or mainland Europe, even RN or any other rightwing party in Europe cannot command more than around 30% of the voting public.

That aside, can you DM me next weeks lottery numbers please?

My family have been refugees and then economic migrants. Mainland China to Hong Kong, England, USA. With some remaining in the last three countries. I’m in the UK and my brothers went to the USA. They are Republican with their children probably being Democrat. My brothers arrived there with papers and are both highly qualified as a research scientist and an engineer. They are not interested in saving other people they are interested in their own families and neighbourhoods so when they hear Trumps rhetoric about building a wall they like it because they already pay a lot of tax. As much as people on the left do not agree with the good and bad immigrant trope, people like my brothers do.

One big mistake on the left in all countries is to assume that anyone not white will be left leaning. I saw that Reform had a candidate that was Indian which was a bit of a shock but an indication of just how much the left has peeved some people I was a Labour supporter for many years until they totally lost plot.

The Conservatives lost the last election far more than Labour won it. Under PR you would have 80 Reform MP’s, imagine that. To get another term Labour really need to be spectacular, it’s too early yet obviously. MN overall has lots of people in the mortgage and childcare years overall so were supportive of the WFA being removed. That was a pivotal moment when they did something that even the Tories wouldn’t. Keir Starmer will be remembered for that forever just as Thatcher was when she took away primary school children’s free milk. Amongst those children it was the same, many didn’t need it as their families were not poor. It doesn’t mean it was right.

I digress as have focussed on the UK but it’s the same issues as in America, cost of living, immigration and identity politics. Though we don’t have the added awfulness of gun and abortion policies that are detrimental. As some commentators have written it’s gas and groceries that concern most Americans.

Many on the harder Left of the Labour movement think Starmer is positively right wing. They are far more contemptuous of him and the government than even the Tories. I don't think the Corbynites would agree that the Left won. I would say he's pretty centrist, which is where both Left and Right usually win from. Corbyn may have got 40% of the vote but his votes were piled up in areas where he was always going to win. He did not have broad appeal. Many Northern Labour voters outside of the major cities just didn't vote at all rather than vote for him. This is what people mean when they say the Left need to listen to others. Corbyn played to his adoring crowds at Glasto ( £200+ a ticket) rather than trying to do the difficult work of engaging people outside his fan club. Plus his confused and unworkable Brexit policy.

Kamala didn't lose because she was explaining complex problems and solutions!! Did you ever hear her speak???? It was all vague, meaningless Oprah Winfrey style speak. Trump talked about issues people cared about - and had clear things he said he would do.

This election was run by the rules by both candidates. Trump won fair and square in a resounding way.

Well no, the hierachy of the labour party did learn under Starmer. They deliberately and consciously became a lot more moderate in their issues and speak, both than the Labour party had been under JC and than the party had been earlier on under Starmer. The talk about women being dinosaurs hoarding rights and women not having cervixes and babies being born without a sex noticeably stopped. There were no memes about ' You are thick and racist - Vote Labour!' during that election as it was no longer funny as the party had moved itself away from that, so the joke would no longer resonate.

Labour winning the last election actually supports my argument that if the Left party wants to win, it has to become moderate and stop insulting people.

I think the point that is common to the US and UK is the politics of immigration. In the US perhaps the debate is more explicit than we are. But people here also believe in good migration and bad; and have some cynicism about diversity. But we don’t talk much about what migration we need, what we don’t and what our social policies are.

The US driven by migration politics; all about who contributes and where you come from. Trump promises to deport people. I don’t think anyone should kid themselves that this wouldn’t be popular in the UK. It would. These riots we had prove it.

I think when it comes down to it people want to:

• be able to get a decent job and have enough money to live on
• get a secure roof over their head
• raise their kids in a safe environment and for them to go on to have a good life
• live in a country that puts its citizens first and does not allow illegal immigration to flourish.

I am a 'lefty' but people's priorities are not going to be Ukraine, political correctness and climate change if they can't feed their family, buy a home and prosper in life.

So ultimately I think Trump won because he prioritised the economy.

I also think this is the mistake that Starmer is making at the moment.

Most of us voted Labour to improve standards of living and bring back hope to the country and address the Brexit mess, not for them to start taxing small businesses into oblivion, penalise pensioners and the disabled while doing sod all to address the immigration and housing crisis and sending millions to Ukraine when we can't afford to look after our own.

Yes I agree with most of your points op

The left/liberal leaning parties have been out of touch with too many of their voters and taken them for granted.

The attacking, the sneering, the using terms like turkeys voting for Christmas, deciding people do not have critical thinking skills because they vote different I despair at many on the left how judgemental they are

people need to be listened to even if you do not like or agree with what they are saying

I love how people think immigrants/ethnic minorities are all left-wing. Most of the ones I know are the opposite! Me and my family are immigrants, we had a lot of admin and effort to get the visas to come here legally, we learned the language, we’ve always worked and never claimed benefits, we’ve fully taken on “British” values. I totally support immigration via the proper visa process, especially in occupations where we are lacking qualified people. Why would I support people who come here illegally, to claim benefits or work cash in hand, who don’t agree with British values? I imagine the average American is similar.

I also think most people are sick of woke bollocks and “offended” PC culture where everyone is a victim - nobody will publicly say this as they’ll get cancelled, but you only have to look at social media memes and comments to show you many people are sick of it.

Ok so why didn't you post "what can the Right learn from the left...." type post?

The 'Left have learned ... both Lab and the Libdems... & btw i don't support insulting the electorate, no matter who they vote for within reason), its only one aspect of their beliefs.

The pp going on about Corbyn? thats the past... Labour have moved on & who are these shadowy figures on the hard left about to oust Starmer? he changed the leadership rules and the Corbyns of this world booted out.

The 'right now have 5 years to show us what they have learnt after 14, quite disasterous years.

But i think your post and, so far, what Badenoch has had to say, shows that the 'Right haven't learnt anything at all... always someone else's fault.. now its the lefts fault... they apparently need to "learn" from the 'right.... despite decimating the main uk right wing party.

Repeatedly and predictably saying vacuous soundbites like "if you know what you believe in you know what you'll fight for" in portentous tones as if they meant something, while having no answers to serious policy questions, and bringing out a parade of glittering celebrities whose lives have nothing whatsoever to do with most people's real lives were very wrong strategies. Surely the Dems could have seen that?

@Alexandra2001

Ok so why didn't you post "what can the Right learn from the left...." type post?

Seriously? I'm not being funny but are you living in a box under a rock? You don't think that anything happened recently that my post was in the very clear and explicit context of? Let me bring you up to date. There has been an election in this really big country called America and there has been a resounding victory for a truly dreadful man (called Donald Trump), who has narrowly won the presidency before, but overwhelmingly won it this time, both the electoral college, and the popular vote (first time a president has won both in 80 years apparently) and is looking like winning the senate too. Its a staggering triumph.

Despite this man being pretty awful, he has had this tremendous victory and the left really need to look hard at why this has happened if they want to stop it happening again and an even worse man called Vance (google it) becomes President, but at the moment there is just a lot of whining from the Left about how the majority of American voters must be thick and racist and nazis and just hate women or something.

Don't mean to patronise you with the current affairs update but didn't want to assume you were so dim that you had heard about the USA election but somehow genuinely failed to grasp that this was the relevant context for my post.

Its remarkable isn't it?

Yes yes yes Absolutely this! LIE, LIE and LIE again like the right. People aren't interested in what experts have to say these days, they are more likely to listen to their favourite celebrity than what someone who has carried out research and has extensive knowledge of the field has to say. Facts don't matter. News agents trying to take a balanced approach have been vilified and will soon be shut down by those who have a vested interest in controlling the media to suit their agenda. Then it's free rein to anyone to report whatever the hell they like. Control the media, you control the world. Look at the likes of Elon Musk, Trump and the Murdoch enterprise, their own platforms to spread whatever suits their agenda. This time Trump has developed his own bit coin racket and will use his presidency to both profiteer and to quash his convictions. Seems he's put his own interests above his country's already. Just like the Tory's did handing out their contracts to their mates, expenses scandals, peerages and privileges for mates. Basically the world is run now by completely self serving individuals. If Labour actually manage to turn the NHS around and improve things for ordinary people and particularly the poorest people in society, I will retract that statement for the UK at least!

They couldn't but perhaps they will for next time, or maybe not, celebs and democrats seem hooked on the PR with each other

All of this.

I agree.

Also, me learning anything from this? I'm not running for election so it's not really a worthwhile exercise

And this I agree with too.

This might seem like a clever response but it's just another attempt for people who vote for abhorrent candidates with abhorrent views to excuse themselves