And AGAIN, where the hell was the father?!

[PyongyangKipperbang]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8elyx27p56o

Not suggesting he is responsible for their deaths but.....

They lived in squalor, the toilet and bath were both unusable due to being filled with rubbish so they used pots and buckets instead. He knew that the mother left them to go to the local shop and appears to be fine with that, and describes her as a "good mother". WTF?!

Two sets of twins in under two years and where the hell was he? Even in a strong team working marriage that would be a struggle, but a single mother doing it.....

I am not making excuses for her. What she did both before their deaths and in what caused their deaths was inexcusable. But if you knew that your childs other parent was struggling to that extent then you should step up, and if you dont know then you are not involved enough in their lives to know that they are living in filth.

He isnt directly responsible for their deaths but he is surely guilty of neglect?! How the fucking hell has not been charged with that?!

I see, so absent fathers bear no responsibility at all for their children . . .. Really?

I have to agree with that.

Precisely.

The mother’s partner left within weeks of the second set of twins being born.
So she had twins just turned one and twins a few weeks.
Over 3 years she was solo parenting four babies/toddlers which would tip anyone over the edge.
The mother should have had help daily until the first set reached at least 3.
There are dm’s on here with dh’s tearing their hair out with just one toddler and a baby.
Everyone let these babies down.
Imagine how little sleep the mum got.
The children’s father could have done more and he has to live with that knowledge.

@PyongyangKipperbang I recognise you as a long term poster and someone who generally posts well-considered and nuanced posts.

I can’t make any judgements about this case but I absolutely had the same response when reading this story.

I don’t think there is a racist or misandry slant to what you posted at all.

i think it is wholly legitimate to question why women disproportionately find themselves doing the hard work of parenting and sometimes failing catastrophically. It’s much too easy to claim the woman is preventing access to the kids.

A capricious, willful woman blocking a good and decent man from contact?

Or a woman who had possibly suffered abuse from this man?

It would be interesting to see the history of this relationship.

Walk a mile in her shoes to understand why she behaved as she did. How do you know that you wouldn’t have done the same in her situation?

I was thinking the same. I would really struggle to cope with 4 young children.
the blame is all on the woman, but as usual the man gets off Scott free

And the mother. She must also be grieving too.

I agree with this. Some mothers are just shit. Some mothers just don't love their children. Posts saying that the mother is a victim too, based on what exactly? I'm biased on this having grown up with a shit abusive mother who couldn't care less but it turns my stomach the way people will always twist and twist to try and find some excuses for shit mothers.

It's great you have never experienced being parented by someone who doesn't love you, someone who puts themselves first always, someone who seems to get off on treating you badly but they do exist and they can be women.

Some people need help and it’s just not there- health visitors, social services, regular development check ups. Our communities have fractured too, no one knows anyone anymore to see signs of people crumbling.
It’s dreadful and heartbreaking all round - RIP little boys

Once again children let down by everyone around them, family and professionals.

I too find it distasteful that the father suddenly becomes cast in this positive light.

Deveca was clearly a terrible mother and those boys died as a result of her actions. But everyone else left her to it despite obvious warning signs.

I'm always fearful now of being guarded over my emotions. I felt terribly sorry for Star Hobson's father, and then he went and stole all the money that had been raised for her headstone.

i Just about function with a toddler.

Two sets of young twins AND being a single mum. I can understand why she left her kids (I presume watching tv) to nip to the corner shop 20 metres away.

It sounds like she was in an impossible situation.

have you have a link I can't find anything
tia

She was gone for an hour and a half. That wasn't a nip to the corner shop.

We obvs don't have the full story, but where are pps getting the info that she denied contact w the father & his family totally? I can't find that when I search. This article ( https://www.bromsgroveadvertiser.co.uk/news/national/24628456.mother-guilty-deaths-four-boys-house-fire/) says the boys were having contact w the father's mum at least, but she wasn't allowed in the house. The social services don't come out well at all- I know they're overstretched, but this is unbelievable. It feels unlikely she could hide the squalor, so instead wouldn't let them in. I think we should refrain from condemning the father until more comes out. There are far too many crap dads, but he may well have been trying to get ss to act and have been failed by them.

CallMe, she did have mental health problems, but refused help. If she hadn't, things could've been different.

Yeah this is a tragic story

As you say, where was the dad/family?

Really awful

When someone doesn't accept help or engage with social services, social services can't just swoop in and take the children. A case needs to be built. Had this tragedy not happened, it is very likely that SS would have eventually had to take action. Up until this point though, "all" they had on her was that her house was a mess and the children smelled but there was evidence that the mother was addressing it (the house looked a bit tidier one time).

Because you’re not wrong.

This was less than a mile from me.

It should never have happened, she was clearly extremely unwell.

It's said that she had several mental health issues, her house was 20cm deep in rubbish and there was feces around the house.

There were observations from teachers that the children smelt of urine and she often left them alone.

The firefighters couldn't get up the stairs because a door and mattress were blocking the way.

She left a candle or cigarette burning and went to Sainsbury's, locked her children in and disappeared for half an hour.

It was plain that she wasn't coping, social workers complained of the mess and a smell in the house and they closed the case. The boys also hadn't been to school in three weeks.

Prayers

As you say, where was the dad/family?

Seems people have ‘knowledge’ of two different scenario’s on this thread.

One being, the dad/his family knew, did nothing to assist and are equally as guilty of the children’s deaths.

The other being, the dad/his family knew, the mother blocked contact with them, the dad/his family asked SS to step in and help and they failed.

I have zero idea which is the correct scenario, so reserve judgement until I do.

Yes, but a lot of that didn't come out until after the children's deaths as part of the investigation. Her personality disorder and serious mental health issues weren't known. She had been to her GP about depression once. I already mentioned the messy house and it was noted that there had been some improvement. She did not allow people into her home, so no one really knew how bad things were. Social workers can not just force their way in whenever they want. She wasn't coping, no, but she didn't ask for help or accept it when it was offered. Eventually they would have had to take action, but there wasn't enough reason to based on the info they had at that time.

Hindsight when you have all the facts is not the same as foresight when you know very little. No one could have predicted from a messy home that she would eventually leave her children alone for 90 mins with a cigarette or candle burning.

From what I read about the case, their paternal grandmother and father were very involved until Covid and the restrictions happened. After that, she stopped letting people into her house. And that's when her mental health really started to decline. She hid it from people. When talking to the police she called the mess "organised chaos" or something. She refused to accept the house was as bad as it was. She refused to accept she had neglected her children.