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Original poster

And AGAIN, where the hell was the father?!

333 replies

PyongyangKipperbang · 03/10/2024 22:12

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8elyx27p56o

Not suggesting he is responsible for their deaths but.....

They lived in squalor, the toilet and bath were both unusable due to being filled with rubbish so they used pots and buckets instead. He knew that the mother left them to go to the local shop and appears to be fine with that, and describes her as a "good mother". WTF?!

Two sets of twins in under two years and where the hell was he? Even in a strong team working marriage that would be a struggle, but a single mother doing it.....

I am not making excuses for her. What she did both before their deaths and in what caused their deaths was inexcusable. But if you knew that your childs other parent was struggling to that extent then you should step up, and if you dont know then you are not involved enough in their lives to know that they are living in filth.

He isnt directly responsible for their deaths but he is surely guilty of neglect?! How the fucking hell has not been charged with that?!

Kyson, Bryson, Leyton and Logan (unknown order) died in a fire at their home in 2021

Mother guilty over fire deaths of four sons

Deveca Rose's two sets of twins died in a house fire while she was out shopping.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8elyx27p56o

OP posts:
mslewis · 07/10/2024 17:57

candlewhickgreen · 03/10/2024 23:06

I read that her mother knew they were being left alone as she called and the boys would tell her their mother was at the shops. It was a common occurrence and known to a few people.

I also read that social services closed the case a few months ago. The door was locked so they couldn't get out. Those poor little boys hid under the bed.

Then when she came back, the mother told the fire brigade that she had left them in someone's care and they wasted time searching for them.

I don't have sympathy for her and those little boys were failed by everyone.

Deveca was also very much failed

FlatWhiteExtraHot · 08/10/2024 15:53

biscuitandcake · 05/10/2024 10:38

Yup.

People who were starting from a "good" position, who already had their shit together saw everything slide into chaos. People who were already on the edges of coping, fell of altogether and every time people posted on here to ask what to do there was a chorus of "You CANT break lockdown, don't you know nurses are DYING, just cope".

I also wonder, and this will probably get me criticised, how you "know" certain methods of parenting are bad. I think its easy to compare to your own childhood - e.g. my mum wouldn't leave us alone to go to the shops at that age (but there weren't 4 of us), people around me would be shocked if I did it or suggested doing it. But if you don't have that to compare to (or you are in a different position to your parents) and the people around are like "meh, do whatever" how do you KNOW. I know common sense blah blah blah but not everyone has common sense. This is also why the austerity era decimating of services like sure start (pre-covid) and free support/education/activities for children/parents was so awful. That doesn't let parents of the hook for neglecting their children. But gah...

Show quote history

I also wonder, and this will probably get me criticised, how you "know" certain methods of parenting are bad.

This is a very good and valid point. It’s why generational child neglect needs to be tackled at the source, which just doesn’t happen.

You’re handed your first newborn, then evicted from the hospital 6 hours later, and the majority of people don’t have the foggiest idea what to do. Every single service that could help new parents learn how to take care of their baby has been either cut to the bone or removed. No community midwife visits, no health visitors, no Sure Start, no Children’s Centres. You can’t know what you don’t know.

It’s not an excuse but it is a reason.

Met44 · 08/10/2024 16:11

This case is absolutely heartbreaking. I do feel sorry for the mother who was clearly suffering.
I struggled with one baby, can you imagine two sets of twins?

The fact that she wouldn't engage with SS so they closed the case?? Surely, that would have proved that those poor children needed help?

Im prepared for this to be deleted. But maybe if she was a middle class Doctor who had just popped out to her local Tapas bar she wouldn't receive all this hatred and criticism...?

GuestFeatu · 08/10/2024 16:43

Met44 · 08/10/2024 16:11

This case is absolutely heartbreaking. I do feel sorry for the mother who was clearly suffering.
I struggled with one baby, can you imagine two sets of twins?

The fact that she wouldn't engage with SS so they closed the case?? Surely, that would have proved that those poor children needed help?

Im prepared for this to be deleted. But maybe if she was a middle class Doctor who had just popped out to her local Tapas bar she wouldn't receive all this hatred and criticism...?

Nobody is obliged to engage with social services. We use all our powers of persuasion to try to engage people but unless the threshold for intervention without parental consent is met we can't just keep harassing people against their wishes. People decline to engage with social workers for all kinds of reasons. It's not an automatic sign that their children are being severely neglected.

Met44 · 08/10/2024 17:14

@GuestFeatu
I do understand that, I'm not criticising Social Workers who must be stretched to the limit.

But, it wasn't just the mother not engaging. The house was unkempt and she had withdrawn them from school/ nursery and they had received a complaint.

GuestFeatu · 08/10/2024 17:17

Met44 · 08/10/2024 17:14

@GuestFeatu
I do understand that, I'm not criticising Social Workers who must be stretched to the limit.

But, it wasn't just the mother not engaging. The house was unkempt and she had withdrawn them from school/ nursery and they had received a complaint.

Thanks, I appreciate that. I didn't take your comment as a criticism. I'm just trying to explain to people who can't understand why social workers didn't keep trying that there is a threshold that has to be met before crossing the consent line. Many people's houses are unkempt and the children seemingly had only been removed from school very shortly before they died. None of us know what information/evidence the social workers were working off. It's easy to look back with hindsight and assume people must have known how bad it was but usually they don't.

Met44 · 08/10/2024 17:23

@GuestFeatu
Your'e right, none of us know the full facts. I just feel sorry for the mother who was clearly struggling and those poor babies.

HollyKnight · 08/10/2024 17:38

@Met44 You also have to remember that this happened during Covid, so children missing school wasn't unusual at that time. It wasn't typical for these children so it might not have been overly alarming to the school. I don't think we even know why they weren't at school. Either way, it had nothing to do with their deaths.

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