And AGAIN, where the hell was the father?!

[PyongyangKipperbang]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8elyx27p56o

Not suggesting he is responsible for their deaths but.....

They lived in squalor, the toilet and bath were both unusable due to being filled with rubbish so they used pots and buckets instead. He knew that the mother left them to go to the local shop and appears to be fine with that, and describes her as a "good mother". WTF?!

Two sets of twins in under two years and where the hell was he? Even in a strong team working marriage that would be a struggle, but a single mother doing it.....

I am not making excuses for her. What she did both before their deaths and in what caused their deaths was inexcusable. But if you knew that your childs other parent was struggling to that extent then you should step up, and if you dont know then you are not involved enough in their lives to know that they are living in filth.

He isnt directly responsible for their deaths but he is surely guilty of neglect?! How the fucking hell has not been charged with that?!

She must have had an uphill battle. The kids were said by the school to be well turned out and clean so she must been bathing them without a functioning bathroom, as the bath tub was full of junk. Probably out of buckets / strip wash.

I have some friends who had one set of twins, born when their first child was three. They were and are a lovely couple and great parents but those early years nearly brought them to their knees. I recall them looking shell shocked during the twins' first year of life. How anyone copes alone with two sets of twins in those early years is beyond me.

Absolutely. But it would explain why no one rocked the boat too much. Better that the kids stay with their mum, even if she was struggling, than other family members be pressurised into caring full-time for them.

Yes, obviously 4 small children are too much for one person, better to leave them with their mother. That way the blame for anything which goes wrong will default to her. Everyone else can look away and admire their clean hands.

Some posted a thread on her a couple of days ago about how her 7 month old baby kept having “accidents”. She’d rolled off the bed among other things, and to me was clearly being quite seriously neglected by the OP, who by her own admission had had a shitty childhood.

The overwhelming attitude on the thread was “awww hun don’t worry, you’re a great mum”. This is exactly how things like this happen.

But he gets to live.

The children don't.

Yep and he gets to hug his other children.

A man with 4 kids under 4 has no business having more kids, with anyone.

I long for the day when social services are actually held to account full stop never mind in a meaningful way.

They are making the same mistakes they were making in the early 1970s.

If you love your kids and can't cope then you get help.

At the risk of being deleted. the McCann parents did neglect their kids. Leaving them alone in an unlocked room on holiday is neglecting them. Not the same as being in your own garden before the usual nonsense starts.

No they really are not

She did try and get help with her depression, she went to the GP a few times.

Mental health provision in this country is woeful.

They are. Believe me. I know.

I've been a social worker for almost 2 decades. I know that they are not.

The children died because she left them ALONE. Not because she had depression. Not because the house was a mess. Not because their father lived elsewhere. A mother can have depression, many do. A mother can have a messy home, many do. A mother can be a single parent, many are. These weren't unhappy children being starved and beaten.

There is nothing in their background or setup to make social services think "Hmm this woman looks like someone who would lock her kids in the house while she fucks off to the shop for over an hour and a half."

You tell yourself that. I know for a fact that something that happened back then is still happening now. Hopefully they've improved in other ways.

There is a well-known poster on MN with various issues who lives in a shitheap with her children. All she ever gets is support from people. No one is screaming for social services to break down her door and take her children away. Because that isn't a reason to take children away. Nor is having depression. Can you imagine? There would be more children in care than not if depression and a messy house triggered removal of children. Every mother with ADHD would be on a watch list.

She had left them alone before and people knew this.

Not for that length of time. A shop 7 doors down is not the same as going to the supermarket for over 90 minutes. Going to the corner shop is not ideal and shouldn't have happened, but it still doesn't mean people should have known she would also think leaving them for an hour and a half would be OK.

Everyone has different risk tolerance, but there is not one person who thinks it would be safe to leave tiny kids alone for that length of time. She knew that, hence why she lied and lied about a babysitter. She knew she was doing something wrong.

Usual story.
Shagging around and having multiple partners is making these things increase.
What happened to.meeting someone, saving up, setting down, having children, possibly getting married first.

No wonder the country in such a state and so many children are being harmed/killed.
Why don't people just stop and realise what they are doing. Get control of their lives.

Does anyone think maybe the reason people (including the authorities) knew about the going to the shops but didn't do anything is because doing something would have meant providing an alternative/extra assistance and that wasn't possible in covidy times. Eg saying "get all 4 children dressed and take them all to the shops with you" didn't see a workable suggestion but there also wasn't any realistic way you would get support workers coming to her house to watch the children while she shopped. And you couldn't really advise her to get a neighbour/friend in as that would be against Covid regulations (though of course she might not have anyway because of the state of the house).

How about people take responsibility for themselves.
It's not compulsory to have children, and more contraception around than ever before.

But since there are social services, and since they do have a remit and are paid by government to fulfill that duty, they need to be held to account.

If people were perfect, we'd have no need for police, courts, prisons, laws, etc.

I agree with you on that.

This wasn't a responsible man, and she clearly was quite a vulnerable woman in some ways, according to psychologists who examined her after the fact (according to the D M).

But there is still a role for social services and they should have done their job.

His new girlfriend and their child(ren?) would have been thrilled to have four extra children dumped in her lap.

Yes i'd like to win the lottery too....

Life isn't perfect and even those born into every privilege don't always behave properly ie Boris Johnson.

Its no good asking people to be responsible, they won't.... they lead chaotic lives and don't have the capacity to think things through.

We have to have a well funded safety net to ensure the results of their stupidity are protected & an education system that helps people reach their full potential.

... in the end, unless we fund public services properly with good policies, these tragedies will keep occuring.