End of my rope with bedtime for DDs 11 and 14

[BadBedtimeCrew]

I really value sleep and think it is so important that they go to bed at a decent hour, but somehow bedtime with my 2 daughters now takes longer than it did when they were little. We need a reset and I’m interested to know how it works for other people.

I’ll go up with the 11 year old at about 7:30. We’ll sometimes listen to a podcast while doing some colouring, or we’ll both sit quietly reading. It’s lights out at 8:00. Ideally then I’ll go downstairs for a bit, but she will often appear several times wanting to be put back to bed saying she can’t sleep. For reference, DH thinks lights out at anything past 7:30 is too late, and when I’m not around, DD11 does go to bed without drama at 7:30 although she says that she lies awake for ages.

DD14 is quite good at taking herself up to bed but also likes me to sit with her reading for a while, often about 8:15 to 8:45. She turns her light out when she’s tired, but it’s never past 9:00. It has been as early as 7:30 recently - knackered from start of school year shenanigans. The 11 yo will often disrupt this reading time asking to be put back to bed, and it’s not unusual for me to still be dealing with the 11 yo even after the 14 yo has turned her light out.

The fannying around with DD11 invariably eats into the time with DD14. Worse, they keep playing off against each other about the amount of time i spend with each of them at bedtime even if that time is spent arguing, or consoling an upset, hormonal teenager. Three nights this week it’s descended into arguments. Not great for winding down and drifting off.

i think they just need to put themselves to bed but I suppose I also have a bit of sadness about not spending this time with them, which is daft, as II honestly feel that spending this time with each of them is creating the problem.

So what do you do with your 11 and 14 yo DCs for bedtime?

YY to the poster who said about adjusting bedtime to your children. Not the children you would like, but the children you actually have.

Eldest DD is a total night owl and always has been. When she started school I remember other parents saying their kids were so tired they were falling asleep in their dinner and sleeping for 15 hours or something. DD wasn’t. I diligently put her to bed at 7.30 (so Bath, teeth etc all done by then) and then spent two hours every night putting her back to bed.
I then changed my mindset. She wasn’t sleeping anyway so I stopped worrying about the ‘right’ bedtime, and what everyone else thought. I went up with her at around 7.30 and started the bath etc. By the time stories etc were done it would be around 8.15. I would then leave her in her room with a lamp on, and a CD playing a story. The rule was she couldn’t come out of her room but she could stay up and play with her toys/read/draw if she wanted. She got into bed when she got tired - usually around 9. If she was still playing at 9.15 I’d go in and put her into bed!

This worked - she actually ended up getting more sleep with this later bedtime because she fell asleep as soon as she was tired, she wasn’t lying awake for ages and then getting up and down all evening.
It felt too late but it worked for us.

Younger DD - different ball game and needed an earlier bedtime. Always has.

There is a happy medium to get as teens do need their sleep, but the times you are describing are way too early.

Unless out at a club, 9.00 watershed was a good point to say go up until 14. By 16, it was 10.00. With more flexibility at weekends.

TV is not the devil. I would prefer my teen to be watching TV with me, rather than scrolling online upstairs

I would also stop all the bedtime routine stuff too. I have made a deliberate point of never getting into anything long and drawn out. When it's time for DS5 to go to bed, I supervise him brushing his teeth, he hops into bed and, if he'll let me, I give him a kiss goodnight. That's it. Cutting it down for both of your DCs would stop the arguments about it.

OP is doing absolutely nothing wrong by giving her DC some one on one time at the end of the day.

Presumably her DDs are actually getting ready (face, teeth, PJs etc) by themselves.

I am taking the comments on board. I’ve always known that the bedtimes are early but honestly, we decided that it was necessary just because when they’re tired it’s no good for any of us.

They don’t socialise in the evening. DD14 has struggled to make friends in yrs 7-9 but now has a good group. None of them are socialising on weeknight evenings, apart from in clubs, which as I’ve said the 14 yo has just started.

Weekends they do go to bed a bit later. Closer to 9 for the 11 yo. 14 yo happy enough to go up at the same time.

Do you not do bedtime stories?

My daughter is 11 and on the spectrum so needs more involvement from us than probably the typical preteen. She has dance twice a week until around 8pm so those nights are a bit later but the rest of the week she gets herself ready for bed around 8 and then has a chapter with one of us or some downtime reading together or maybe colouring or similar. She can't actually settle herself yet. We aim to have her in her room around 9/915 and then lights out around 930. She needs the structure and help from us.

My 8 year old son is neurotypical and it's a total different thing. He has football and such most nights until 7/730 and then showers and likes some time to play with his Lego or read comics or whatever. Sometimes we read together, sometimes not. Lights out at 9 for him. He actually does fine with less sleep and is super independent but took us a while to realise all that as we were so used to my daughter. So if your older daughter is the needier one I know how that can change the dynamic in the family.

But I definitely agree these bedtimes are crazy early. Appreciate your older one seems to need more sleep (have you had her looked at? It's a lot of sleeping for that age) but that doesn't mean your younger daughter needs the same. She's clearly ready to stay up later than 8pm and I'm actually surprised she isn't pushing harder for a more reasonable schedule.

9pm on the weekend ? Thats early

Do they not go online? Chat to friends online? That’s extremely unusual, especially for the 14 year old. I would imagine they find that especially isolating if that’s the case.

Im not suggesting they have unlimited screen time - Ds has to leave his iPhone etc downstairs to charge at 10pm but it’s an important part of his friendships.

I agree with others it’s madness. .
7.30 pm ? Seriously ?
You are treating them like babies .
I like my sleep and so does my child but I can’t believe it’s not 1&4 years old you’re talking about .

id say 9pm for 11 year old and 10pm for 14 year. Old

sounds like you have two good kids

My 3yo also goes to bed at 7.30! She's up a 7am and doesn't nap.

I think at 14 I was going to bed at about 10pm. I don't think your eldest will be tired anywhere before 9.30.

Have to agree with all the other posters in saying that those bedtimes are ridiculously early for an 11 and a 14 year old. Do they have any health issues/disabilities? If not, 9-10pm would be more appropriate; no wonder they mess around when they’re being sent up hours before they probably feel tired.

Everyone’s different. Some parents are in bed at 9:30pm, so depends how late you go to bed as a family. I don’t tend to go to sleep until about midnight on a work day, though I’m in bed much earlier watching tv or reading.

When my sons were 11 they’d be asleep by about 9pm and up for school at 7.30am. Over 10 hours. By 14, they were asleep by about 10.30pm on a school night. Youngest a bit earlier, as he always crashes early, but eldest two were getting more nocturnal at that age. They always got up OK for school, with a bit of nagging and breakfast in bed (saved grumpy rows around kitchen table and seemed to help ease them into the day).

But I didn’t take them to bed or read to/with them after they were about 8 or 9. They started to be more independent and wanted more privacy. They’d go to bed themselves and read or whatever. I’d just check they’d cleaned their teeth and got in bed, then turned their light out when it got near the above times, though I’m sure at 14 they’d still go on their phone later sometimes, as I never confiscated them.

Its v weird. My nearly 8 year old goes upstairs at 7 or so, has a bath then reads in bed. I pop in at 7.45 or so to turn out the light & give him a hug etc. If we are eating a meal downstairs i can tell him to switch off himself 7.45 & he will. Yours seem a bit overdependent on you

Way to early and to still have to take them up and colour and put back to get is ridiculous, there secondary school she and treated like toddlers

My 10 year old goes up about 8-8.30 reads etc and lights out about 9.15

By 14 i wasn't putting my older kids to bed they would just do there own thing and put there self to bed and all of them were asleep by 10pm even now at 21,19 and 17 week night they are in bed for 10 by choice

Sounds a bit sad at 5. What about stories and cuddles? I'd understand that's too much for 11 and 14 but not at 5

Also, I definitely don’t love this regime we found ourselves in. Me and DH used to take turns putting the girls to bed when they were small, and there was a time when the girls were more independent at bedtime. I’m not quite sure how we’ve ended up like this.

@Garlicnaan No, we read a lot after school. Both homework and books for pleasure. DS has never wanted a bedtime story and he doesn't really like me reading to him at all.

Send them up at 9pm to sort themselves out and go to bed.

It’s madness .

We all get cranky if we don’t get enough sleep but we have to figure it out for ourselves not be Babied our whole lives .

I actually feel a little sorry for the girls 9pm at weekends !

I agree the bedtimes are crazy early! My 8yo has lights out at half 8!

@BadBedtimeCrew sit them down this weekend and start a new routine , ie them being in their rooms by a certain time and entertaining themselves .

They're far too old for those times OP. You're treating them like little kids. Colouring?

Send them up at 9 (at the earliest) if they're still up They don't have to go to sleep but they can faff around in their rooms if they're not tired.

My 6yo goes to bed at 8pm and my 9yo 8.30.
I think 7pm for a 14 yo is a bit ridiculous tbh.

One on one time doesn’t need to be bed time, though, does it? Why wait until they go to bed to engage? Get them involved in dinner prep, or let them colour at the kitchen table. Children of that age do not need 1 hr one on one time every day either - they need quality, meaningful conversations/interactions (which is exactly what she describes) but it can happen in smaller chunks during the day. The routine described is going to give these girls issues on school trips and when they get to university as they won’t be used to the adult equivalent of ‘self-soothing’ - ie, chilling out alone, reading etc before bed.