Sad our church turned its back on dd

[TeenLifeMum]

Dd has been to church all her life. At one point we moved to a different church that suited us more but we made lovely friends etc and dd was attending youth group until she was 15. Suddenly she was less keen but focusing on GCSEs so we didn’t push it. With clubs etc for the other dc, regular attendance dropped a bit but we were fairly relaxed.

I believe in god but have always had issues with “the church”, but put that aside to be with people of faith.

I recently learned why dd stopped going to youth - they did a full session on how they should pray for gay people in the hope of healing them. How they are so angry about people loving each other is beyond me.

dd is gay. Her girlfriend is loving, kind, polite, and caring. I want all my dc to have loving healthy relationships so have no issue and naively thought others wouldn’t care. Turns out they do. Two of her closest friends stepped away due to her being gay (parents we’d met through church) and now she understandably doesn’t want to go to church, and neither do I.

I’m angry. I hope they’re really proud of themselves from their high horses. On the off chance they’re on here - no, you’re not good Christians.

Thanks for humouring my rant.

You wrote, and I quoted, "People are allowed to have their beliefs and raise their children how they see fit."

You stated your doctrine; I pointed out what was wrong with it. Many people sincerely believe they own their children and have a right to do to them, and to teach them, whatever they feel like; I don't think that is a sound belief, and I don't think that it should necessarily be allowed. In the case of some such beliefs I think they should be forcibly prevented. Do you really think that any- and everything should be allowed just because the parent holds it as a belief? or did you mean only those things which you believe yourself or find to be harmless?

There isn’t one all encompassing interpretation of Christianity, or any Abrahamic religion. Or of the bible, Torah etc. Some people of faith and religious leaders believe homosexuality is a sin, others don’t. Neither of them has more right to define the rules than the other.

Also, being gay isn’t a lifestyle.

DuBoo
There isn’t one all encompassing interpretation of Christianity, or any Abrahamic religion.

If there were, the long-standing dispute between the Sunni and the Shia would not have been raging for centuries, would it.

Apologies - I assumed that the examples
@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime gave were taken from the bible. A quick Google neither confirms nor denies this. But I think it's fair to say that there are many equally ridiculous examples actually in the bible!

If there was one set of rules that were somehow known and accepted by all people of each umbrella religion then half the bloody conflicts in the world wouldn’t happen.

@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime Oh, you've edited your comment to say something completely different. Does that mean that those outlier examples ARE in the bible? 😂

Christianity: 2,000 years of Christians declaring that other Christians aren't Christianing properly therefore they shouldn't call themselves Christians.

Seventh day Adventism is not a cult.

I'm atheist, but I have relatives who are Adventists, and nothing about their faith or their churches bears any relationship to a cult.

If we're going to criticise religion, we have to at least have our facts right.

I think Family A should be able to teach their children gay marriage is just as valid as heterosexual marriage.

I think Family B should be able to teach their children that their faith says XYZ about gay marriage.

Hopefully, that makes my stance a little bit clearer.

As a Christian who believes that there is absolutely nothing wrong with being gay, all I can say is I'm sorry and not all of us are like that. Not all churches are like that. My church has it's mindset very much in the 21st century and acknowledges that while the bible is inspired by the word of God, it was written by human men who have imprinted their own beliefs on it. It may not feel like this now, but the tide is starting to turn when it comes to Christian views on homosexuality.

That would depend on what XYZ is. Eg, a strict Biblical reading would say that homosexual men should be put to death. Personally, I think if that's what you are teaching your children then you should be put on some kind of register.

I have not seen that instruction in the New Testament.

But of course anyone dangerous enough to encourage murder should be on the Social Services case load we would hope.

Well I'd be disappointed to think that was your standard c of e church, those fuckers certainly hid it well

They've a pile of gay ministers too. Our minister is gay.

As a gay woman, I can assure you that I won't be going to hell as there is no proof that it exists.

Religion = mind control and fear based system to control people. I think today people can see that it is bullshit which it is why it is diminishing. The only place left to peddle it are developing countries where people don't have the opportunity of education.

The problem is they don’t just say “if you my child are gay it’s wrong because we are X” (which is horrific enough)

They say “all gay people are wrong/sick/going to hell/need to be cured/are dangerous/are possessed by demons/should be denied equal civil rights/should be ‘treated’ with curative sex/should be shunned/should be beaten/should be denied goods and services/must have done something wrong in a previous life/can be murdered with impunity” etc.

No one cares if you ‘agree’ with homosexuality- don’t like it? Don’t do it. But you have no right to impose your opinion on anyone else, including your children.

Same here, if I had kids and one or more was gay I'd be very supportive of them too. I know someone who totally rejected his child and wouldn't speak to him. I think that's dreadful personally! What does it achieve? Nothing.

Yes, people are allowed their beliefs. For example, I'm allowed to believe that homophobic beliefs like those of the poster I was responding to are fucked up and that telling your children that being gay means they have to be single and celibate their whole lives makes you a bad patent.

Telling them to be celibate and that they should never be in a loving consensual relationship is not being supportive.

I don't think I've drastically altered the meaning of any of my posts in this thread, so I am unsure what you mean here. The one I edited, I changed "I don' think" to "I don't think", and I think that's the only thing I changed; the others have not been edited. (You can check what's changed in a post by clicking on the "edited"under it, and that was the only edit I noticed in that post when I did that, but please do tell me if there were others.)

Believing that you own your children is probably pretty biblical. Will you settle for the commandment which reads "Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee?" (many, many other translations are available) Simple instruction that Daddy is boss and child has duties without rights, if you choose to read it that way; some parents seem to.

(But off the top of my head I offer Colossians 3:20-21, Proverbs 1:8-9, Proverbs 6:20. Oh, and a doozy: Deuteronomy 21:18-21, which reads
"If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
"Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
"And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
"And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear."

Parents are supposed literally to have the power of life and death over their children.)

The examples I gave in my post, though, were not from the bible; they were NSPCC case histories. You could add (from the same source) that some people apparently believed it was OK to bite their baby to death – fortunately biting babies to stop them crying seems to have been a short-lived fashion without too many copy-cats after the court case. But I can't believe you'd do that if you didn't at some level believe it was OK. Actually I can't see how anyone ever thought that was OK in any way, but it happened.

It’s also bloody stupid if you want to have a relationship with your children and grandchildren in the future.

I have literally lost count of the number of gay people I’ve known who’s parents are ‘hate the sin, love the sinner’ types- those parents aren’t being invited to visit new flats, Christmas dinner, family holidays or to see their granddaughter in her ballet show.

I would not 'tell them to be celibate'. They would be adults and therefore would make their own decisions, telling them what to do would be counterproductive. It's no use trying to control your child. My own mother tried that with me and it drove a big wedge between us until she let go and let me get on with my own decisions. So no, I wouldn't be doing that.

Does your copy of the Bible only contain the New Testament? Or is it just that you've neglected to read the Old Testament?

luckily I’m not easily offended 😂

Contact a few local churches and ask their views on homosexuality. I've attended a church that prayed for gay people and Ive attend one where one of the main people involved in organising all events and very well respected was gay.

It's not for us to judge even if it were 'wrong' so the church should be loving and accepting of everyone regardless of their 'sins' so long as they are not a danger to others.

It's Paul with his counter Christ writings. Misogynistic homophobic man he was. I truly believe if Christ was alive today he would turn over more tables in anger at the influence that man and others following him into church leadership have had on the followers of Christ. I gave up attending church after the pastor told me to stay with my violent abusive husband because that's what the bible (Paul) says. Jesus only says only meet with other Christians what's the quote? Where two or three are gathered in my name I am there. Pray with your dd read Jesus words and try to follow it (not Paul) and you are true Christians and he will see you and be with you. Half the people so sure they will be going to heaven are headed for the bowels of hell- attending church and prayer does not a Christian make

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