Sad our church turned its back on dd

[TeenLifeMum]

Dd has been to church all her life. At one point we moved to a different church that suited us more but we made lovely friends etc and dd was attending youth group until she was 15. Suddenly she was less keen but focusing on GCSEs so we didn’t push it. With clubs etc for the other dc, regular attendance dropped a bit but we were fairly relaxed.

I believe in god but have always had issues with “the church”, but put that aside to be with people of faith.

I recently learned why dd stopped going to youth - they did a full session on how they should pray for gay people in the hope of healing them. How they are so angry about people loving each other is beyond me.

dd is gay. Her girlfriend is loving, kind, polite, and caring. I want all my dc to have loving healthy relationships so have no issue and naively thought others wouldn’t care. Turns out they do. Two of her closest friends stepped away due to her being gay (parents we’d met through church) and now she understandably doesn’t want to go to church, and neither do I.

I’m angry. I hope they’re really proud of themselves from their high horses. On the off chance they’re on here - no, you’re not good Christians.

Thanks for humouring my rant.

I once had to deal with a Cof E chaplain who had said, ‘God made Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve’ so these attitudes are rife in the church.

Google both inclusive church and diverse church. Former to find a supportive church and latter to engage with supportive Christians.

It’s a very live issue in the Anglican Church.

It would be massively helpful if moderate people went to church and supported their moderate church financially.

The evangelical right are very generous financially, have lots of money to invest in youth and children’s work, and as a result they are the branches which are growing.

My church has a small congregation. We can just about maintain our building. We can’t afford to throw pizza and outings at our youth and children’s’ groups so they get bored and move on. We only ever have a few under 16 at a time anyway.

Have they [Methodists] actually conducted any gay weddings since?

I belong to a Methodist Church and we will conduct same sex marriages. You have to have a licence to do so. As it happens, being a rather elderly congregation we haven't conducted any marriages since we agreed to do so.
Our previous Minister, before we held the licence, said that he had been approached and at the time wasn't able to conduct the marriage, but he did refer the couple to a United Reformed church nearby which could.

Please encourage your DD to find another more welcoming Church - they are out there.

It's 2024, why do you need to be part of a church?

Homosexuality is a sin so of course they would turn their back on her. It’s a sin against the religion so they won’t condone it.

In which case, they need to remember Jesus's teaching about the woman caught in adultery - Let he who is blameless cast the first stone.

Thanks. I am not sure that works. Most Churches will allow marriage or at least a blessing for a divorced couple. Even when adultery is involved. If I follow your logic ongoing sin should not be tolerated. If this is the case, why is adultery tolerated but homosexuality not? In practice there is a very clear double standard. Even within the Old Testament it is arguable that there is a gay relationship- David and Jonathan where on most translations there is an affirmation of love which is definitely not friend to friend. Biblically, the greatest commandment is to love thy neighbour and the Lord your God. It is difficult to understand how such a strong anti gay stance is true to this biblical call.

Our new Cathedral Dean is gay.

Which bit isn't a cult?
The least cult-like branches of christianity are methodists and quakers, and it was a close-run vote on where the methodists are at. Anglicans and RC are each themselves broad enough churches to encompass even more whacked out interpretations than the JW, LDS, and PB. What is "mainstream"?

Adultery should not be tolerated.

Two men can love each other in the sense of agapi love, so not a sexual love, that's how I think of David and Jonathan.

Remember Jesus (who gave us that greatest commandment) is God incarnate. To love the Lord God you must not commit sins, it's not possible in this life of course, because even as a Christian you will still sin, because we aren't perfect. However the blood of Jesus shed for us means that we are forgiven if we repent of our sins. If we do not, i.e. we carry on with a particular sin even when we know it's wrong, then we are mocking the sacrifice Jesus made for us. Loving your neighbour does not equate with loving their sins. We must support people to help them not sin, but not in a judgemental way.

I am a Christian (Protestant) but I no longer identify with any specific denomination but according to Christian denomination - Wikipedia - Mormons are Christians! According to your rationale, that makes men in a dress Women.....shame! Does it really matter, as long as people are decent human beings!

How dare they? What kind of church is it. I would put in a formal complaint (assuming it isn't their policy). Disgraceful

That's a bit of a stretch. Offshoots, maybe.

Maybe the black sheep you don't want to talk about or acknowledge, but definitely the same family.

Thanks. It remains the case though that many Churches are happy to re-marry or bless relationships even when adultery is involved. The implication is that this ongoing sin is somewhat less than being gay. The CofE for example will allow a re-marriage or blessing but still states that being gay falls short in Christian terms.

Many Christians would disagree with your views on Jonathan and David’s relationship at would many scholars.

The bottom line is that gay relationships are not sinful. They are some of the most loving relationships I come into contact with and Churches that genuinely accept gay people, including their full relationships are stronger.

I think it would be better to sit down with a member of the church leadership and discuss this, maybe with a friend alongside you, rather than go to MN, where people don't know the context of this particular church's stance. Different churches hold a vast array of views on Biblical sexuality, marriage etc, and so it would be helpful to at least understand why this is their particular stance and how they back it up with scripture.

They moan about the sharp decline in numbers of church goers and then treat people like this?!

I wouldn't return again either and I'd make damn sure I gave them a piece of my mind before flouncing.

I feel for you OP. I am not a Christian but a practicing Pagan and I cannot tell you the hatred what was inflicted on me from my ex Christian neighbours. Yes I know not all Christian’s are like this, but it was abuse, to the point I had to move house. I was told under no uncertain terms I would be going to hell because I practice reiki and use crystals for healing. Whilst they pulled their kids out of school because they feared books like Harry Potter. It’s insane. It was extremist and it’s dangerous.

I am not surprised you're upset. But to me religion is often pretty judgemental in general. I think that in a few major religions they are openly quite anti gay. Somewhat ironically in some cases.
I hope your daughter can find her own spiritual path without these bigoted people.

Churches aren't businesses or charities. You don't put in "complaints" when you disagree with some doctrine. You discuss it with members and leaders of the church, and then decide whether this congregation is a good fit for you.

It’s a bad church. You all leave.

Go somewhere normal.

Interestingly, it's the liberal churches that are rapidly dwindling in numbers, especially liberal CoE churches.
Conservative evangelical churches are booming and often have to hold up to 4 services a day, across multiple buildings, to accommodate the large numbers.

Yes it does matter. As a Christian, you should know that "being a decent human being" does not get you into heaven. (If it's real). The gospel states that Jesus is the ONLY Way.
This article states Mormons are NOT Christians (they don't believe the gospel)
Are Mormons Christian? The Beliefs of Mormonism vs. Christianity

The sad irony of the anti gay stance in the evangelical wing of the CoE is that it creates awful situations like the Mike Pilavachi mess.

This ☝
The Bible is clear on sexual immorality regardless of sexuality. Telling people 'do not' will never be popular. Adulterers probably feel the same.