Young women's boundaries have been eroded so much

[crochetmonkey74]

I'm currently working on an outreach programme for new adults (women only group)
My remit is to work with them on relationships guidance. This week the session has been romantic and sexual relationships. I've been really surprised by their resignation that certain things , although they don't want to do them, can't be disagreed with as that would be "kink shaming."
Several of then are ND so see everything in very binary terms so when I'm working with them and saying some things are more extreme and wouldn't be part of a normal or average sex life, they are very quick to pull me up on the word normal. It's very worrying how little say they think they have in a sexual relationship anymore. I've got a great team and we've all been chatting about how to tackle and redirect, but just thought it was interesting to share/chat about

The point is that what is normalised behaviour has become more extreme. Choking, spitting, gagging, slapping, and more that I won’t mention. That’s what has become worse.

exactly, but the normalising of extreme acts has put them on an equal footing with more average acts

Let me be very clear.

I don't agree that teenagers should be doing anything they're uncomfortable with sexually. Anything whatsoever, even using tongues during kissing.

BDSM isn't mainstream and I'm not advocating for it to be mainstream. Some of it like edge play is really dangerous and shouldn't be practiced at all as far as I'm concerned but I can't control what people do sexually.

If we can't ban degrading and violent porn, then we need to teach girls that they shouldn't do anything they don't feel comfortable with. We should be teaching boys about enthusiastic consent and not to pressure or coerce girls to do anything they don't want to.

I also made the point that coercing girls to do things they don't want to do sexually, isn't recent and has been happening for as long as I remember.

Ciao

Take the childish words out of it, because they make it seem accessible. It's not.

Hi OP. This is a huge issue for young women. I'm glad you're supporting them. We managed to get a strangulation offence introduced in 2021 in part due to the normalisation of "choking" of women. I'm first to admit this failed to change much for girls and young women - social and mainstream media still promote messages formed in ultraviolent online porn. And it's likely more than 40% of women have now experienced porn-inspired violent assault since 2019 polling.

This is old but might help some discussions: wecantconsenttothis.uk/i-thought-it-was-normal-research

@poppyzbrite4
IF they BOTH enjoy breath play they are fools. It is dangerous.

@poppyzbrite4
More fool them especially the person on the receiving end of the choking because that's what it is.

I’m so fucking sick of it. I used to follow a great photographer on instagram who does really cool couples photoshoots, but in almost every one there is a least one picture where the man has a hand around the woman’s throat. I commented that I didn’t think glamourising choking was a very good idea and was told not to “yuck someone else’s yum”.

There’s something particularly creepy about that phrase.

This is very depressing to read.

I commented that I didn’t think glamourising choking was a very good idea and was told not to “yuck someone else’s yum”.

If their "yum" involves hurting or harming someone for kicks maybe they need to rethink their "yum".

Nobody’s sniggering @poppyzbrite4 I’m certainly not. I’m pretty appalled actually by your constant attempts to bring the conversation around to your “breath play” aka strangulation.

It is ironic that on a thread where women are sharing their valid concerns about young women’s boundaries being eroded you keep popping up here annoyingly pushing the boundaries of the discussion.

Nobody is interested in your bdsm bullshit. It’s not cool, it’s not funny and, I repeat, nobody is sniggering.

I wonder who enjoys choking more- lets see, I'd be willing to put money on the results of a survey coming back to say it was men.
Likewise all extreme and dangerous behaviours

yep no sniggering from me - I'm sick of extreme and degrading and violent things being OK if people are 'into it'

By people, they mean men and by 'into it' they mean women socialised to completely capitulate to men's wants and needs

I wasn't sniggering either

I am extremely angry that terms like breath play are used its so stupid and irresponsible

What needs to be known be everyone especially young people is that stopping oxygen from reaching the brain is always always extremely dangerous and can never ever be done safely

Not that some like to partake in this very high risk and dangerous act

I think this is a really interesting point. If it is called breath play in BDSM communities and I'm assuming usually practiced by consenting adults who know what they are doing and understand the risks, how has it become so common in mainstream porn and is known as choking? And just become something that happens to women during sex and women accept it? Why does it seem that porn is becoming increasingly extreme and misogynistic? I have two young girls and I am trying to do everything I can to make them confident enough to say, "no, I don't want to do that".

it's the mainstream thing isn't it.
Porn used to be something you'd sneakily do- you can now sit watching it on your phone on the bus. A man with a dirty mag on the bus would have been seen as a perv. People can now look at images like that in their living rooms with their families on their phones. The idea of shame needs to come back a little.

Unfortunaly Blarn many people do not understand the dangers. There is advice out there how to breath play safely, its on youtube

the advice is utter nonsense and this is within the BDSM community too (not suggesting all before anyone has a pop)

No doubt later today there will be someone coming on here to tell us they love breath play and play safely

I do not know if I should feel sorry for them or be angry. Ultimately I pity those who allow themselves to be strangled with oxygen limited to their brain who think it can be done safely as they have been manipulated/conditioned to believe this, or naïve

I dumped a man who suggested 'breath play' because, for me, a man who wants to put his hands round a woman's throat has no respect for women. I don't think for a second it was about enhancing my pleasure or any of that crap. If you get off on cutting off someone's oxygen, that is not a caring, empathetic or loving act and I am OUT.

But I'm in my 40s and young girls who are people pleasers and 'sex positive' are unlikely to have that boundary.

Sex positive is an absolutely horrible phrase. I think it used to mean that women, in particular, should own their sexuality and not be ashamed to ask for what they want without shame, but has now become a cover for 'if you don't consent to degrading, extreme and painful acts, you are a frigid prude. That's sex negativity and that is BAD.'

Get rid of that phrase, the yucking of yums, the 'kink shaming' thing, the casual use of BDSM terms in conversations about mainstream sexual behaviour... all of it. The language is a massive part of this problem.

I agree about the language and the twee terms for highly dangerous behaviour . Incidentally it cant even be argued that women do it to have an orgasm as in almost every sexual survey the number of women achieving orgasm is always low.

I knew a woman who was ‘into’ this, and worse. She had mental health issues stemming from a very messed up childhood. Her ‘choice’ in men was terrible as well. I put it in quotes because often these destructive behaviours are called choices, but if you look at their history you can trace these ‘choices’ back to childhood trauma.

I agree OP and think porn is the main cause. I assume the 'porn passport' idea was dropped by the previous government because too many of their MPs or staff would have to apply for one or change their viewing habits.

People can want different things. It is not kink shaming to not want or like the same things sexually. It is ok that what you like and what I like dont mesh but it may mean the end of this relationship.

Thank you, this. And porn., What age are the mothers of sons here talking to their kids about porn? My son is 11 and just gone into year 7 and we talked about it first a few years ago maybe. I've always tried to be very open and honest about sex before it gets embarrassing for him so that hopefully he can come to me with questions in the future. This stuff is out there and he needs to understand that when he inevitably sees it, it isn't representative of normal sex and relationships, and moreover that it's a grotesque industry that treats women appallingly. We need to talk to our sons about Andrew Tate, we need to take more responsibility for what they are viewing online. We as parents need to tackle this early by having honest conversations with our boys before they have seen this stuff. Nobody else will. That's what I think anyway... it would be great to think its not down to us, but I suspect it might be.

I'm of an age when as a teen ,sex was a gradual process and learning between partners at a steady pace.
Fast forward to now and boys are expecting what twisted crap they watch online, slapping, spitting, choking and worse .
Op well done on bringing this up and trying to change things.
As for breathe play ..no one should die during a sexual encounter.