Young women's boundaries have been eroded so much

[crochetmonkey74]

I'm currently working on an outreach programme for new adults (women only group)
My remit is to work with them on relationships guidance. This week the session has been romantic and sexual relationships. I've been really surprised by their resignation that certain things , although they don't want to do them, can't be disagreed with as that would be "kink shaming."
Several of then are ND so see everything in very binary terms so when I'm working with them and saying some things are more extreme and wouldn't be part of a normal or average sex life, they are very quick to pull me up on the word normal. It's very worrying how little say they think they have in a sexual relationship anymore. I've got a great team and we've all been chatting about how to tackle and redirect, but just thought it was interesting to share/chat about

It's part of BDSM: breath play; it's erotic
asphyxiation or autoerotic asphyxiation if you do it to yourself. You can call it strangulation or choking if you like. I'm not getting all the eye rolls and tittering, breath play is part of 'edge play' in BDSM.

I would be very straight forward

Aggressive sex can be physically harmful. Being emotionally harmful is very real to individuals and being possibly physically harmful is a fact

There is not such thing as Breath Play. It dangerous full stop. You can never ever limit oxygen to the brain without risk

You yourself have to learn to understand your boundaries. No mean no. If anyone tries to persuade you otherwise has no interest in your personal boundaries

Its horrific how much young woman are put under pressure. I have many uncomfortable conversations with my son about the dangers of porn. he doesn't want these conversations with his mum but tough they have to be had

stop with the utter bollocks of Breath Play

It can never ever been done safely calling it Breath Play has made it sound something it absolutely isn't

Its a very dangerous to limit oxygen to the brain and can never been done without risk

Your normalising violence is part of the problem.

Boys/young men should absolutely be taught that it is not okay to put their hands around a girl's neck, nor force their penis into her mouth (or anywhere else).

This is not a discussion on BDSM @poppyzbrite4. That's why people are challenging your comments and your terms.

I completely totally agree.

I'm also dismayed that way too many parents today give their young children smartphones with unlimited unfiltered internet access in the privacy of their bedrooms. And just hope it's gonna be okay.

Parents need to wake tf up to the danger of the internet and how porn use, if it becomes regular, will shape the sexuality of their kids in a very unhealthy way.

There's a point beyond which a person becomes porn sick and cannot be healed from that. The wonderful Gail Dines has a fair bit to say about this.

You know what though? The starting point is about safety and consent, not BDSM jollies. That's for later on when adults have a handle on what is/what's not/what should be/what should not be in sex and in life in general.

I'm not sitting with my teenage daughter and talking about BDSM and breath play before I talk to her about consent, safety, violence, am I? I'm going to teach her about consent and boundaries, not sex games. I don't think your posts are relevant to the thread. You're not adding anything to the discussion. You're merely here to push your agenda.

I don’t really get why anyone else is supposed to care if somebody feels ‘shamed’.

I couldn’t give a fuck if someone thinks their kink of dangerously choking someone else has been shamed and that’s hurting their feelings. Good. Their kink is shameful. It could kill someone. Nobody has any moral obligation to give respect to anyone else’s harmful (or harmless!) sexual practices. There’s no right to be offended. Men’s sexual wants are not sacred. People need to be free to laugh at and criticise each other.

Why not reframe this so the pearl clutching is clearly seen to be the fragile ego authoritarian men who can’t stand anyone saying anything short of glowing active approval of their every sexual want?

‘Kink’ is as sanitising a cutesy word as ‘breath play’ is and that should be pointed out too..

It's called breath play in BDSM. it's not for you to tell people what language they can use or what they choose to do in bed.

I agree it's dangerous and I don't advocate for it. I imagine the young people doing it are just mimicking what they see in porn without knowing what they're doing.

Breath play is meant to heighten your orgasm, some people tie something around their necks or put a plastic bag over their heads. There are quite a few 'suicides' because of it, no one really knows how many.

I'll use whatever language I like thanks, and you're welcome to snigger away.

Yes @EHCPerhaps 100%

More policing. I haven't derailed the thread. I'm just replying to people quoting me.

We don’t need a more conservative society, we need a more progressive society. Women still aren’t seen as equal to men, we have a long way to go.

Is this more of a thing now, really? Haven't young women always needed help with sex boundaries - I remember my mum saying she would "have to" kiss any man who kissed her, as it was rude not to.

That was generations ago now. So I feel like this isn't a new problem

the problem though is the things we were pushed to do when young did not necessarily harm us

kissing a boy when you did not want to is so very different from being choked by a boy when you have sex for the first time

school nurses increasingly report that girls are turning up to their clinics with damaged anuses

it's all a result of violent online porn teaching boys how to do sex and girls how to perform sex for boys

My mum also experienced quite severe sexual assault as a result of feeling she couldn't say no though - the kissing was just one example.

I'm not sure it's gotten worse, I think this has been a problem for generations

It’s not a new problem, it’s a worsening of the problem in that we’re not talking about a kiss, it’s far more extreme. Of course being made to feel like you had to kiss someone back is also a problem, so I’m not minimising that at all.

It is up to others to call out the use of such dangerous and disingenuous language

When a man is called over friendly when he sexually assaults a woman I will call out this term being used

it is not child pornography it’s children being sexually assaulted/raped

are just some examples

language is important and I will not be silenced when the risks to children and women are so high

If people don't want me on the thread because I'm derailing it, then it's best not to quote me.

I'm not stopping you from using any language you like. Feel free.

I counsel sex addicts/pornography addicts and betrayed partners.

So We talk about all these intertwined issues all day long. It's heavy and depressing if I'm honest. Particularly, societies denial.

I am obviously very anti porn but It's unlikely pornography will be banned. It brings in too much money among a variety of frustration reasons.

In recent years its also merged into social media and sexual content is just more prevalent everywhere. Society is desensitised.

We now have a very toxic positive sex movement. It's become anything goes and everyone (women particularly) need to be not just ok with it but actively engaging. It's become very difficult to educate and debate this issue particularly.

The US are ahead of us in terms of teaching at schools with fight the new drug but it can be religion affiliated which the UK are not interested in. We have the naked truth project in the UK which I believe are starting educational workshops but there has been concerns from parents. They are really resistive to feeling their children are being brainwashed/told too much too young/ again religious aspects.
It's a really frustrating loop. Because this education needs to start early.

We need to be giving young people the skills to navigate this. Particularly boys. Statistically the abuse and addiction is overwhelmingly boys and men.

One of the biggest factors in this whole journey I see over and over. Is that when a boy starts habitually watching pornography typically around age 10 it changes their brain it stunts their emotional development. They are not developing empathy which is crucial.

These boys are becoming men with no empathy for women.

Society already from day one gives the message women and girls are less than are to be looked at consumed/judged/valued for their bodies. It teaches entitlement then in comes pornography and it teaches not only to continue to objectify girls/women but everyone to really extreme degrees yet its all branded as normal. Vanilla doesn't exist anymore. Advanced Addiction aside as it does escalate these typical men/boys are not inclined to accept the role reversal of what they see in porn. It's no longer about sex. It's about power and control.

Currently the NHS doesn't even recognise sex addiction as an addiction. So you have to pay for help which even then is hit and miss. In my opinion 12 step isn't great it's a very old model and just about sobriety. Where as what's needed is a full integrity abuse recovery. That's what society needs. Addiction aside. It's obvious more prevalent than anyone realises but these issues of which pornography is just one big cog in the wheel effect every facet of society and everyone in it.

On every level it isn't taken seriously as a real issue. It is continually shut down. It is a societal issue and definitely a feminist issue.

Hopefully some of that made sense. I'm very sleep deprived. 😴

again not normal or average and again, part of the 'boiling frog' vibe

I know lots of women of that generation who experience several sexual assault and rape though (including my mum). I don't disagree that this is a bad issue, but I don't think it's worse than in previous generations

I think framing it in terms of what's "normal" isn't that helpful. What if choking does become normal or average, should we all start doing it? Of course not! Girls should know that these practices are dangerous and something that you might consider only when you're older and have some sexual experience, enough to really know your body and what you like. It's definitely not something to just try because you feel pressured.

@MightyGoldBear Yes it made sense, very depressing.

One of the biggest factors in this whole journey I see over and over. Is that when a boy starts habitually watching pornography typically around age 10 it changes their brain it stunts their emotional development. They are not developing empathy which is crucial.
These boys are becoming men with no empathy for women.

This is horrific…and the age restrictions on those websites are laughable. It’s designed to be addictive, and the effect on the brain is now well documented. I had a relationship with an addict and the damage it did to my self esteem was horrific. His brain became totally warped and I paid the price. Yet we’re pushed to be accepting. Standards for behaviour are so low.

Thanks @MightyGoldBear Statistically the abuse and addiction is overwhelmingly boys and men

I agree, we need to start seeing boys who become addicted as vulnerable too and try to help them not hate them. I'm not defending the guy who tries to coerce a young woman, I'm talking about the vulnerable child who came beforehand. He is being damaged and brain washed and and no one is trying to prevent it.