Are schools getting more strict and controlling?also are secondary schools to big

[Loveithateit]

At dd school (secondary) there are 2 compulsory homework clubs a week. Plus there's home work for actually at home to . If home work is due in on the Friday If it's not handed in on the Wednesday. They are made to stay after school to get it done.

They have 4 role calls a day. School controls when and when a student can't remove their blazer.

They get into trouble over things out of their control . Example : schools uniform is very expensive. Income low parent manages to sort all the main school uniform but struggles with part of the PE kit.

I think if things were a little less strict students would be happier there for enjoy school and work better. I personally don't think most of this stuff is to ready children for the adult world. You don't get held behinde at work if you forget a pen.

If school uniform was more practical and comfortable I think students would work better.

Also if home work is due Friday then it's due Friday . Not Wednesday. It's just more pressure on the child why do it.

I'm not in the position to home school my child but I totally get why more people are doing it.

Standards need to improve and unless the schools get tougher how else are they going to change?

My child's school is nothing like that.

I agree it would be better if they were slightly smaller though... no bigger than 200 a year. But they would need more schools, and therefore land to build them on...

I think strict school uniform is good for discipline and helps prevent bullying. As far as I'm aware, they're strict in order to maintain discipline, not to prepare them for work. You can't have a free for all at school and if you give an inch some children take a mile.

As far as I'm concerned there isn't enough discipline at school. Children thrive with good boundaries.

I agree with some of what you say.
I believe uniform to be a good thing overall but agree it could be more practical and less restrictive without losing its usefulness. I don’t agree with forcing them to wear certain parts of it all the time.
I also don’t agree with any compulsory after school clubs.
I do think kids should be expected to be prepared for lessons, and I don’t think uniform actively stops them learning.
Many kids behaviour in schools is sadly fairly poor There is a lack of respect for possessions and people. This make learning very tricky. School are attempting to set high standards across all areas of school life in order to fix this.

I think one of the problems currently is that parents are far to quick to go in complaining about why their special child shouldn't have to obey any particular rule they don't want to obey. Much worse post covid.

Discipline is vital-especially in a big school and as long as the rules are clear-and apparently they are as you have listed them out in detail-then not getting detentions should be easy.

There are also ways schools can support parents who are struggling to afford kit-we have a big second hand shop and will always help those in need. Our local Baby Bank also helps provide school uniforms. So think that is a slightly different issue.

What do you mean 4 roll calls a day? Taking the register? That normally happens every lesson. What's the problem with that? We need to keep track of the kids for safeguarding.

That’s nothing like DS school. They have about 180 a year, all students are given their first school uniform and PE kit to help parents and there is plenty of chance to get second hand.

not a rediculous amount of homework, optional homework clubs but no pressure to attend - actively encouraged for those struggling to do it at home though

Are the compulsory homework clubs outside of school hours? How does the school treat kids who are looked after, or who are carers with responsibilities?

I am curious about how "compulsory" homework clubs work. If the school day is advertised to finish at 3.30 surely they cannot say it's compulsory to stay until 4.30. If they are making it compulsory then that means the end of the day is actually 4.30.
Surely it can only be compulsory if it's actually part of the official school hours?

It varies by school OP. My DC's secondary school isn't like this.

I’m an old wifey now, so probably totally out of touch, but I think that schools maybe seem stricter now because society in general is much less so.
Not everywhere, and not always, obviously.

Yes, and yes, IMHO.

In my dd case she is OK. She likes to get home welork done ASAP. So she can get it over with. I don't make it a thing with dd. I just say something like oh that sounds bit poo. Never mind. Then she grunts and gets it done. So it's not a big thing really thing . May be for others though. I don't think my DS would cope with it.

With the PE kit situation. I had to pay out 70.00 for her blazer . Plus shirts trousers etc from super market. Plus the school PE top and the track bottoms came to 50.00. I could not afford the PE fleece /jumper. I did once call the school about help with uniform and it was like they didn't know what I was talking about like I had asked a very odd question. Said there's no help I felt so embarrassed.

I also had 2 other uniforms to buy although they are super market prices.

Every school is different and faces their own problems.

If they are doing these strategies it is to address an issue across school.

DT’s school - non uniform - so much better imo. No time wasted enforcing antiquated uniform rules and no bullying as no one cares less what you are wearing.
They had compulsory homework club or sports practice Mon - Thurs each week.

With the PE kit situation. I had to pay out 70.00 for her blazer . Plus shirts trousers etc from super market. Plus the school PE top and the track bottoms came to 50.00. I could not afford the PE fleece /jumper. I did once call the school about help with uniform and it was like they didn't know what I was talking about like I had asked a very odd question. Said there's no help I felt so embarrassed.
I also had 2 other uniforms to buy although they are super market prices

Do you have a local Baby bank? Ours takes referrals from GPs, social services, schools and ppl can apply directly. They help with school uniform and ppl in local facebook groups often pass on kit. Maybe you got unlucky with who you spoke to but there should be help with that!!

I currently work in a lovely grammar school and I very rarely issue a sanction, just the odd reminder and the students are amazing, polite and very keen. I have also worked in a deprived rural school where the students go out of their way to avoid following any instructions or responding positively to reminders because it's a way to create distraction and avoid work. The bigger issue for these kids is that they have been failed long before secondary school if the reason for their behavioue is either undiagnowd SEN or low literacy and numeracy meaning they are not secondary ready and / or cannot access the curriculum (leading to poor avoidant behaviour) compounded by the lack of funding for support in schools and misguided belief that classroom teachers have time to create a bespoke curriculum for 200 kids in 3 horus planning time a week. Or because they come from disrespectful antisocial families who seek to undermine schools and arrive completely unable to cope with structure.

The thing is, if schools don't try to impose some sort of structure, routine and ability to self regulate, plan ahead (go to the loo at break) fit in (wear a school uniform) put up with mild discomfort ( wear school shoes not trainers) then what sort of adults will some of these kids become. And also can you imagine any teacher getting any teaching and learning done in an environment where kids cannot follow a rule. As a teacher I don't always agree with all of the rules and we could pick apart any school policy. I never stop a child going to the toilet in my lesson but will try to discourage by initially saying no to kids I know are just going to misbehave (ones who have been caught vaping in the loos etc). I know there are people out there who say all behaviour is communication and that if a child misbehaves they have an unmet need. The thing is in a lot of cases the unmet need is a lack of sufficient parenting. Kids need to learn manners, to take turns, when to listen and how to ask questions or query a decision politely. Too many kids are raised to be selfish, self centred, rude and uncooperative. We are doing them a favour by exposing them to some strict rules.

Also I don't schools have got stricter. In the 90's my secondary school had rules about tie length, skirt length and school shoes being leather. We also had loads of homework every day and had to carry textbooks home to do it. We also had detentions for not filling in our planners correctly or being rude to teacher.

@Parker231 were the "compulsory" clubs actually part of the school day though and Friday (no club day) technically an early finish day?
(So for example Monday - Thurs school finishes at 4 but the last hour was "clubs" and on Friday they finished at 3)

You must have known what the uniform was like and the kind of school your children were going into when you applied for them to go there. If you didn’t want them to be in a school that has such firm uniform requirements, you could have applied for them to go to a different school. The same with homework requirements, surely you went to open evenings to find the best fit for your children?

Part of the school day - you had to attend homework club (and show evidence that the work had been completed) or participate in a sports team practice. School day finished at 4.40.

@AdmittowearingCrocs not everyone actually gets a choice in the school though. If you live in an area where there is just one school and all local villages and towns feed into it - that's the one you send your children to. It's not a choice.

My DDs upper school had 2600 students and it all worked fine, size isn't the issue. They had lanyards and scanned in each lesson, if they didn't scan within 5 minutes of the lesson start time they got a text to their phone (in case they were in lessons but forgot, after 10 minutes parents got a text, attendance soared.... too many students before signed in at registration but didn't got to every class. No uniform so that wasn't an issue but there was a dress code (shoulders must be covered, no crop tops, no bad language or plays on bad language on t shirts, shorts and skirts mid thigh as a minimum. Highest state results in the county and higher than the two boarding schools!

But they have to be tough about the right things. What on earth is the point of expecting HW in on Wednesday when it is due on Friday?

I think the school uniform rules are batshit.

Mine went privately and although they had a uniform they were not strict - I think dd wore her blazer approx twice a year at events. They were allowed piercings and dyed hair as well.

When I was at school we had to ask permission to take our blazers off, that’s not new. Same with taking the register at every lesson, that’s normal. You say you wouldn’t get held back at work if you forgot a pen but I forgot my work laptop (which is the equivalent really) I’d be going home again to get it and staying late to catch up…