Are schools getting more strict and controlling?also are secondary schools to big

[Loveithateit]

At dd school (secondary) there are 2 compulsory homework clubs a week. Plus there's home work for actually at home to . If home work is due in on the Friday If it's not handed in on the Wednesday. They are made to stay after school to get it done.

They have 4 role calls a day. School controls when and when a student can't remove their blazer.

They get into trouble over things out of their control . Example : schools uniform is very expensive. Income low parent manages to sort all the main school uniform but struggles with part of the PE kit.

I think if things were a little less strict students would be happier there for enjoy school and work better. I personally don't think most of this stuff is to ready children for the adult world. You don't get held behinde at work if you forget a pen.

If school uniform was more practical and comfortable I think students would work better.

Also if home work is due Friday then it's due Friday . Not Wednesday. It's just more pressure on the child why do it.

I'm not in the position to home school my child but I totally get why more people are doing it.

If there was a real choice I think these massive institutions with overly strict rules and poor facilities would not exist, however it's all about budgets and tickbox exercises to prove they are improving. Usually based on the crackpot theories of whatever crazy educational style is in vogue with the government of the day.

Schools should be focused on education and not what colour/style of socks etc pupils are wearing! Its petty and controlling

I think the blazer thing is ridiculous. Who decides for everyone whether the temperature is warm enough to take it off?

However the homework thing I agree with.

I have a problem with paying a lot of money for cheap polyester uniform. I think a lot of secondary schools are too big, the one nearest to us is vast and looks exactly like a prison. I do not agree with compulsory home work clubs unless a child was consistently not keeping up with their work.

But I think they have to crack down on discipline and rules, I do support that.

Why are secondary schools so big? I mean primary don't seem to be as big . And we seem to have enough? So why are secondary schools not simlar ? Why are there less secondary schools but bigger. Surely the learning and teaching would be better if the schools were smaller?

I think some schools need to be reminded of their mission to their students. The children aren't cattle to be herded or factory units to be organised or anything like that, they're the reason the school exists - to serve and enrich the children.

The first thing schools should tell pupils when they arrive is "Here are all the amazing opportunities you're going to have while you're here and here's how we're going to help you fulfil your potential". Then after that comes "Here are the rules we need to follow to keep each other safe and ensure we can all learn in a positive environment". And they should be sensible and not nitpicking, with an understanding that mistakes happen and some children come from challenging backgrounds which make it difficult for them to be fully compliant.

It feels like schools have it the wrong way round at the moment. They set out very strict guidelines for what the children must do for them rather than ensuring that they're giving students an emotionally supportive, secure enriching start in life. I understand that it is partly a resources issue - budgets have been pared back to the bone - but there are far too many children nowadays for whom school just doesn't "work" and I think this must be part of it.

Back in the early noughties a lot of secondary schools switched polo shirts and Jersey jumpers. They were criticised by the end of the decade for having scruffy unkempt kids who didn't take pride in their school. Then the introduced 'student voice' and got student panels to introduce new starter uniforms so they could show pride in their communities. At the time Harry potter was big and they all picked very traditional uniforms and blazers. None of it solved rhe behaviour issues. Ultimately, I don't care what they wear as long as it's an even playing field so a uniform of sorts and it should be affordable for all....however don't forget that schools get pupil premium money for disadvantaged kids and we do provide ours with multiple uniform items. It doesn't matter what you provide, some kids and parents will not want to wear it, find excuses, be to chaotic to maintain it e.g wash it or not lose it. Most parents will try to abide by the rules and there will always be a group who are so stubborn will protest it.

I mean this is just basic common sense.

"If you have a deadline, you need to stick to it" is one of the few actually useful things schools teach because it's relevant your whole life in many different ways. Not to mention it would mess up teachers' schedules massively if they have to mark random things at random times for so many students.

Because in primary you have one teacher per class. In secondary a teacher might see a class 3 times a week or less, so you need more classes to fill a timetable.

Because the population has gone up but no government wants to build new schools. The ones we have are falling down or full of dangerous asbestos or concrete. The tories cancelled the new schools building programme but still allowed huge new housing estates to be built and dictated that schools increase their numbers on role.

they're the reason the school exists - to serve and enrich the children.

There are many reasons schools exist. To create workers for the economy is one. To keep kids off the streets and off the unemployment statistics is another. To help them pass exams.

If they started at a non uniform school then it wouldn't be a shock would it. If they have to buy a 50 quid blazer and a pair of black leather shoes then better to spend that on a couple of pairs of jeans and a pair of trainers.

Except some parents are only spending the money on blazers and school shoes because they have to, so the money would go back into the family pot rather than being spent on jeans and trainers for school. Uniform has its issues, and I think it could be made less formal but it is a leveller in terms of parents who can't afford or won't buy more expensive day clothes for their kids.

Checking skirt length, sock colour or whether shoes have a speck of white on them is ridiculous, sending kids home for the same even more so but I agree with the principle of school skirt/trousers and polo shirt etc.

More children is more options for GCSEs and A levels.

One of our local schools has 50 per year... they all basically do the sane GCSEs as there is no flexibility for choice. A school with 200 per year can have a lot more to chose from

I'm a teacher and would hate to work at a school like that and would not have wanted my dc at a school like that. It's ridiculous and counterproductive. Schools absolutely need to come down hard on the real bad behaviour and give detentions for not doing homework etc, but they need to stop behaving like fascists about the little things. Uniform should be generic and affordable. Homework should not be excessive, and should have reasonable deadlines.

These excessively authoritarian regimes cause misery and anxiety in the good kids who actually care about and turn up for the sanctions, meanwhile the real trouble-makers go on causing trouble because they don't give a shit, don't turn up to detentions and their parents don't cooperate with the school, but it's very hard for schools to actually do anything about them. So they punish the minir misdemeanours to look like they're doing something. My school is not like this, thank goodness.

Because in primary you have one teacher teaching one class most things. In secondary, you have maybe 11 teachers per class teaching different subjects. You have to have more classes to make that work.

I think some schools need to be reminded of their mission to their students. The children aren't cattle to be herded or factory units to be organised or anything like that, they're the reason the school exists - to serve and enrich the children.

I'd like to think that's why schools exist, however I think you're very over optimistic. Schools prepare children to be cogs in a wheel - follow arbitrary rules, don't question too much, learn what we tell you to, and devil take the hindmost. It's about warehousing children until they can join the workforce, and if your child gets an education in the midst of the crowd control that's a happy side effect. If schools were about educating and enriching children there would be much more investment, teachers would be highly regarded, with manageable workloads, there would be necessary supports in place for students who need it - without parents needing to fight tooth and nail, there would be flexibility in school provision. School is a form of social control, with a side serving of education for some, not all, children.

And it works given the number of posts from parents asking the schools permission for x, y or z instead of exercising their parental responsibility and telling the school their child will be doing whatever.

Schools are meant to be beneficial to the children themselves not just society as a whole. That's why it's acceptable to legally compel their attendance at school. We don't detain people who have committed no crime so they cannot be justified as keeping children off the streets and creating workers for the economy is not a good justification either. Otherwise children would simply be assigned to certain jobs/careers regardless of personal preference. As for passing exams, the assumption is that this is for the children's benefit not the school or society. Of course there may be wider benefits to society as a whole for having an educated population but that doesn't justify compelling children to attend school.

Second hand uniform sale always very helpful. If your school doesn’t have one, you can try to organise one too. Uniform has loads of benefits for the children and families. You don’t need to worry about whether kids would feel worse or being bullied because they don’t wear the most in stuff. Everyone has a sense of community and proud etc.

The compulsory homework club, this would benefit families need help the most. It’s a good practice to instill for time management for children - not leaving work to the end hour.

I don’t see a problem with 4 roll calls, but i agree its ridiculous not to let children take off blazers when they feel hot.

i think these “strict rules “ approaches are often just a sticking plaster attempting to cover the fact that sone kids haven’t been taught the basics at primary so cant cope, or have undiagnosed SEN that schools dont have the time, money or desire to deal with properly .

i personally have spent £££ on tutoring for my child with SEN, Im lucky i can afford it, but if i couldn’t he would be arriving at secondary unable to take part in the lessons.

When doctors stop wearing scrubs the kids should be back in blazers. Until then either a polo shirt and joggers uniform or own clothes should be in place. Hint you ain't going to get the NHS out of scrubs + trainers now.

I don't know any modern professionals other than pilots who wear shirt to work 24/7, even our friends in banking/law work from home at least one day a week in everything from a tracksuit to PJs!

Prep time I can agree with as it helps kids structure their work and do it well. Maybe it's time that the school day was extended by an hour for independent study ie prep.

Bully will always exist be it what they are seen in outside of school or what type of trainers they have got PE. DS (year 6) has just cost me £100 on trainers for PE as that's what the kids are wearing.

If this is the case, then compulsory schooling is morally unjustifiable.

If this is the case, then compulsory schooling is morally unjustifiable.

I agree, particularly given school is actively harmful for a great many children.

And this is why those who can, go privately.

Whatever arguments some people give in favour of school uniform, the fact remains that pretty much the rest of Europe and probably most of the rest of the world seem to manage perfectly well without it and seem to regard ours as a quaint but somewhat baffling anachronism.

As a teacher of 25 years, both in a grammar school and challenging non-selective school I completely agree with everything @WonderingWanda has said.
It never ceases to amaze me that almost all parents tell you that they chose their child’s secondary school because it was strict and the children were well behaved. Then about 5 minutes after their child has started at the school they allow or even encourage their child to break the same roles upholding that good behaviour. They want school to be strict with everyone apart from their child. Some parents cannot teach their own children to self regulate at all. The trouble is the relatively innocuous things parents give in to when the child is 11 (non uniform trainers, bit too long on the XBOX) turn into dangerous things at 14 (vaping, school refusing, smoking weed). If you don’t say no at 11 you’ve lost it by the time they’re 14. The parents sitting crying in front of you at Year 10/11 Parents Evening saying “I don’t know why he’s like this, he’s got everything he wants” 🙄 are the same parents condoning bunking a detention or demanding an unnecessary toilet pass in Year 7.