Are schools getting more strict and controlling?also are secondary schools to big

[Loveithateit]

At dd school (secondary) there are 2 compulsory homework clubs a week. Plus there's home work for actually at home to . If home work is due in on the Friday If it's not handed in on the Wednesday. They are made to stay after school to get it done.

They have 4 role calls a day. School controls when and when a student can't remove their blazer.

They get into trouble over things out of their control . Example : schools uniform is very expensive. Income low parent manages to sort all the main school uniform but struggles with part of the PE kit.

I think if things were a little less strict students would be happier there for enjoy school and work better. I personally don't think most of this stuff is to ready children for the adult world. You don't get held behinde at work if you forget a pen.

If school uniform was more practical and comfortable I think students would work better.

Also if home work is due Friday then it's due Friday . Not Wednesday. It's just more pressure on the child why do it.

I'm not in the position to home school my child but I totally get why more people are doing it.

@Parker231 so that's not really a compulsory extra club. Just part of the timetable.
As a parent I would be very annoyed if they said school finishes at 3.30 but then insists on "compulsory" clubs for an extra hour.

A woman primary head said to me that if you want to look for toxic masculinity male secondary school heads was a very good place to start

Our school uniform is less expensive than yours, but generally schools have always enforced uniform policies or else what's the point. What you describe doesn't sound that strict, it's only uniform, making sure homework is done (no harm getting in the habit of not doing it last minute) and registration (don't see the issue - all it means is they're making sure the kids are there). It's certainly less strict that when teacher could chuck board rubbers at kids and suchlike. Now there's lots of emphasis on kids being happy at school, which has benefits although hasn't necessarily resulted in kids actually being happier overall (indeed is happiness a realistic expectation for daily life/the human condition). But in general no I don't think schools have got stricter overall, though there will of course be variations between academies, private schools etc where they may be 'selling' themselves on discipline and so people get what they are 'buying'. Some schools are bigger for sure but that's a lot of factors from funding to demographics and not something the schools can do a great deal about.

It was classed as compulsory homework club on the timetable to separate it from the regular school day. Worked well - homework got done much more quickly than it might have at home as it was in a controlled environment with supervision and support

Schools don't stay the same from year 7 right to 6th form.

And I'm sure ? Zone sirt of guidance was meant to come out to make uniform more affordable to people. It does not seemed to have happened.

Also I would not pull my child out of a school because I struggle with the cost of a uniform. That's very likely to be the same at other schools. Dd is year 10 so GCSE . She has friends and it would be a mess uo mentally and emotionally.

100% this.

If you have to manage 1000+ teenagers and get them through demanding academic tests, make sure nobody gets bullied or assaulted, ensure a cohort of kids raised by lax Gen-Xers, during lockdown mainlining YouTube and Tiktok concentrate for the duration of every lesson you need to be strict.

They should be providing low cost uniform options for low income families - I've never known a school that doesn't.

I agree with you about size. The reason the Michaela gets brilliant results is because it's strict and small.

*I'm a lax Gen-Xer myself, no shame.

Yet that's exactly the kind of thing that snazzy private schools do and parents are glad to pay for as it helps the kids get their work done/build a work ethic/achieve more. Granted not every parent will have those values and not all kids will be suited to it, but it's not a reason for the schools not to try it it if they want to give the kids the best education they can within their limited resources. It's not like the teachers are getting a bang out of staying late to do these things.

The Wednesday/Friday homework thing is simply an opportunity so those who haven't done their homework by Wednesday ( and probably unlikely to do so!) have the opportunity to do it in homework club on Wednesday and Thursday so as to avoid a detention on Friday!

My kids' school has compulsory after school clubs and it's one of the top state schools in the country. It means all children get extra curricular activities and exposure to different hobbies and interests - regardless of their parents ability to pay or drive them to clubs.

The homework club in school hours actually seems like a good idea, and one that helps kids who are disadvantaged at home.

Yes to both - too controlling and too big. I home educate all my dc after primary school, they then re enter the education system at sixth form.

It's forced though. Why can't a child do it Wednesday evening /Thursday evening . At home ready to be handed in on the Friday morning. If they have not handed it in then they get the Friday detention.

Basic equipment like lens and pencils ought to be provided by the school. Handed out and collected in, for those who need/forget them, each lesson.

Really?? I think the absolute least a secondary school aged kid can do is bring a pen to school. Much, much less effort for everyone to bring their own than to have an endless supply of pens being handed out/taken back in every lesson.

@Longma yes from when indeed.
My grandmother went to a secondary school.
This was pre 1944 so to go parents either paid the fees or the child had to win a scholarship.
(My grandmother would have been one of the scholarship ones).
People think of that era of being very strict (schools used the cane etc) but going there was considered a privilege.
We have a couple of school photographs - those really long ones with all the pupils.
The school had a uniform. But when you look at the photo some pupils aren't quite wearing the official stuff. One is a summer one so the girls are in dresses (instead of the winter gymslip dresses). Most are in the official one but some are clearly wearing homemade dresses from different material.
Some of the boys have what looks like home knitted jumpers on rather than shop bought ones. Most of the boys have a dark blazer but a few seem to have a lighter colour jacket instead.
Those photos are probably 100 years old now. The school it evolved into is now an academy with strict uniforms and rules.
It's a crap school now. One of the worst in the country apparently.

I agree, they are too big now and require a lot of behaviour management. If you put 2000 people in a relatively small building for 6 hours everyday, you’d need to manage behaviour, it’s not ‘kids today’.

We need to stop the blazer and ties, they are uncomfy and not conducive to work. Hell, most adults have moved away from wearing them in all but a small number of industries.

Forced is a bit dramatic. A lot of work is 'forced' if you want to put it that way, so no harm getting in the habit of it. Presumably it's a good idea overall and if left to the kids, enough of them wouldn't do it in the unforced way that you wish, meaning lots more detentions which no one wants. Better to get the work done even if it means a few free spirits feel a little forced (but get their work done so they can enjoy their evenings too).

@FKAT but are those clubs technically part of the school day?
As in school finishes at 4.30 but the last hour is "clubs"?
Because that's what I am curious about. If a school advertises it's hours as 8.45 - 3.30 surely they cannot legally make the pupils stay for an extra hour for compulsory clubs.
Surely they need to say the school hours are 8.45 - 4.30.

No it is forced. Its not a standard lesson in school hours. There's no harm getting into the habit. If it's helpful to that student . Others it would completely stress out and cause them problems.

People often cite uniform as good for maintaining behaviour but countries without uniforms in say Europe, don’t have teens with behaviour issues. There should be a dress code though.

As a pp said schools seem strict because rules in society have become much mote lax now. For example shoplifters get away with what used to be a crime and the police just give you a crime number if you’re burgled or have your car stolen. As parents we can be less strict than school because we only look after our kids in one go where as teachers are looking after 30 which is a different ballgame.

Regular registers aren’t unreasonable. We live in a litigious society where parents would be furious if their kids skived or were missing.

At primary children are given pens and pencils.

Most secondary children can manage to look after a pencil case. Most schools will provide pens/pencils for PP or SEN students.

Homework club sounds like a great idea.
So in practice the homework is due on the Wednesday and the homework club is set if you haven't done it,

My school ran homework clubs but they were by parental arrangement. So pastoral staff or a deputy would contact a parent and say that we've noticed your child isn't doing their homework would you like them to do it in a supervised club after school where they can get help.

Most parents jumped at it,

Does the school have a second hand uniform shop? We are encouraged to donate outgrown stuff to ours (if we don't need to sell it)

People often cite uniform as good for maintaining behaviour but countries without uniforms in say Europe, don’t have teens with behaviour issues.

Teenagers all behave well in 'Europe' do they?

I thought uniform was as much about inclusion as anything. Poor children have higher attendance at schools with uniforms, especially girls.