Looks likely a vote on assisted dying is imminent

[fragrantdog]

‘A vote to introduce assisted dying across the UK could be imminent after Downing Street reiterated that it would not obstruct a private member’s bill on the issue and indicated it would support an MP in drafting it.’

@Pantaloons99

I think you've linked the wrong poster. I'm entirely in favour of AD, and fully aware of how horribly some people die.

@Pantaloons99
This issue has depth of feeling on both side I think describing people as "arm chair do-gooders" just because people do not agree with your view is quite insulting. We are all shaped by our experiences and we can't begin to know what has influenced each person unless they choose to divulge this and they don't need to.

ST was not "denied her right to life"

Utter nonsense.

@XDownwiththissortofthingX oh sorry XDown 🤦‍♀️

I'd like to be told exactly what all the risks are and decide for myself. It should be something we need to understand early on and put in writing - like with a will.
We should be able to appoint an executor that is a trusted person that agrees to advocate for us medically during the final months and make the end of life decisions. It's a big ask though!!

There’s a popular perception that physician assisted suicide and euthanasia are always peaceful, quick, merciful and dignified.

The reality is quite different.

This is a sobering and disturbing read.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9270985/

@AgileGreenSeal I'd take my chances on MAID over the hideous prolonged suffering any day of the week!

are you sure you won’t suffer on MAiD?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9270985/

^^this.

A close relative is a hospice nurse. They are committed to excellent palliative care for their patients. They are also massively in favour of assisted dying as an option for those who want it, because not all pain in controllable and not all deaths are quick and dignified.

I fully intend to end my life if I am ever at a point where i no longer feel it to be worth living due to terminal illness. That’s my right as a human being and I would take great comfort from knowing I could peacefully slip away on my own terms when the time came. I have no fear of death, but (having spent time with aforementioned hospice nurse) the dying process terrifies me.

ST never had a realistic shot at getting into that trial, and Christian Concern are NOT a reputable and reliable organisation. Find a better case to use as an example, otherwise I am going to assume that you too have a fundamentalist Christian bias against assisted dying.

Let me remove all doubt for you- I am a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ and I’m not ashamed to say so.

I do not agree with the taking of any human life, whether in the form of physician assisted suicide or euthanasia or abortion or anything else. So judge me if you want.

The verbatim statement of ST’s family is worth reading, regardless of who reports it. She was a 19 year old intelligent, conscious young woman who was deemed competent by two psychiatrists to state her desire to continue living. What happened to her is extremely pertinent to this issue.

The popular perception that death by physician assisted suicide or euthanasia equates to peacefully slipping away on one’s own terms is sadly misplaced wishful thinking.

you need to read this.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9270985/

It doesn't really matter how many times that article is linked.
I for one would still opt for an uncomfortable 2, 3 or even 10 hour death in comparison with a 2 day, 2 week or 3 month one which can definitely happen with many terminal illnesses. I don't think people are looking for an easy way out, they may just want any way out.

I am also concerned that there is an assumption that anyone who is terminally ill and suffering will be desperate for this.

What assumption ?
No-one is suggesting that.

There are also many people of faith (including Christians, as that has come up on this thread) who would support this bill when it next comes to Parliament. Just because some Christians oppose it, doesn't mean they speak for all Christians.

I'm against assisted dying and I'm not Christian. It's not a religious issue for me.

I do think the article is important.

A glance through the responses to this thread show that many, many people believe assisted suicide or euthanasia is quick, painless and dignified.

In the interests of informed consent at least, it is important that we all be as aware of the reality as we possibly can be.

This,

I am a vet, I perform humane euthanasia every week, usually at the right time, on the right patient and when it’s the right thing to do. Even though it is a kindness, it emotionally takes its toll on the whole team.
much more so when there are other factors at play, particularly when animals with fairly good quality of life or treatable conditions are put to sleep for financial reasons, because they’ve become an inconvenience or there is conflict between different family members over what is in the animal’s best interest. Going home questioning if you’ve really done the right thing and upheld your professional oath that day.

I would not wish this on the doctors/nurses dealing with human palliative patients. It would fundamentally change the relationship between medics and patients.

@AgileGreenSeal thankyou for the link. That is very grim reading. I'm not really surprised. I don't know if I missed important points but the article seems to stress the potential for problems where the cocktail is ingested orally.
.
I myself would never be ok with oral ingestion and would instead seek intravenous physician assisted MAID - should that be my path in this life.

Based on the alternative - I absolutely would still take my chances and would support this in a heartbeat.

What I must read into - is whether proposals go as far as DIY at home with no support or actual real life assistance as was the case with the exemplified case study.

The risk of problem is always there. After reading the attached, the risk benefit ( as I understand it) is still absolutely worth allowing it.

@AgileGreenSeal the paper also is not quite powerful or horrifying enough in comparison to the gruesome prolonged suffering of so many subject to very cruel illnesses. .

I also feel that your motivation is in keeping with a religious doctrine rather than concern for those who may suffer a worse fate via MAID than natural death.

I go to bed hoping, as I do every night, that my mother will die and her suffering will be over.

I also do know that it is very rare for people to put Advanced Refusals of Treatment into action. Perhaps one or two more might do as a result of this thread?

Thanks for reading it.

I think the concerning issue with the euthanasia type of death (rather than the patient ingesting drugs orally) is that (due being given a drug to ensure paralysis) the patient, if not adequately unconscious “may be killed by suboptimal, or even cruel, means…. If the person were aware, it has been suggested that the experience of death by lethal injection could be akin to suffocation or drowning.”

“I also feel that your motivation is in keeping with a religious doctrine rather than concern for those who may suffer a worse fate via MAID than natural death.”

My motivation is irrelevant. (and actually it’s both of those which you have mentioned , and some additional concerns as well).

However this scientific paper speaks for itself.

Everyone ought to be as well informed as they possibly can be on this issue, whether they support or oppose AD and especially if they intend to seek it for themselves.

Your motivation is very relevant as you may have a religious belief but you have no right at all to impose your beliefs on others or to ignore the extreme and cruel suffering that your beliefs tolerate.

You are ignoring it but you are being highly irresponsible. "Give your suffering to Christ" doesn't cut it for an atheist.

@AgileGreenSeal yes I think it's important to be aware that there are potential risks and you may be considering one form of suffering over another.

Statistically and based on the case studies, I'm still strongly of the view that the outcomes will be considerably preferable for the majority undertaking MAID as opposed to natural death. ( Bearing in mind those seeking MAID are probably more likely to suffer a condition that will cause significant and prolonged suffering).

I feel incredibly strongly that where religion is a motivation, it will very much overlook or fail to consider the extent of suffering that religious belief will endorse. It is to me very much a sweep under the carpet mentality associated with conservative religion.

I won't go there in detail as it's another thread but the abortion reference you make is the same - let's sweep under the carpet the severity and extent of suffering to be endured by millions of women should this be illegal, because God says it's bad. If we are to be a truly humane society,we need to leave this nonsense at the door and get in the real world .

Having witnessed a few relatives deaths. The “natural process” is pretty akin to suffocating/ drowning. The swallowing reflex goes and people will often choke or breathe saliva into the lungs, it’s just drawn out. I appreciate drugs havent been tested at these levels but in general a generous injected dose of Phenobarbital will knock you out and finish you off.

I know it’s anecdotal but I’ve heard so many stories about people who suffer horribly. That you wouldn’t let a pet suffer in that way. Oddly enough I don’t hear lots of stories about all the pets who suffered horribly at the end because the euthanasia drugs didn’t work. Willing to be told I’m wrong.