Looks likely a vote on assisted dying is imminent

[fragrantdog]

‘A vote to introduce assisted dying across the UK could be imminent after Downing Street reiterated that it would not obstruct a private member’s bill on the issue and indicated it would support an MP in drafting it.’

I still don’t think it’s a remotely comparable situation.

In one the person has to request assisted dying, in the other it’s a punishment for a crime.

I think you seem to be suggesting that there would be accidents, like the wrong person having a leg amputated?

I'm not saying the situations are exactly similar. I'm saying it's a kind of life or death situation that is open to mistakes being made.

Fwiw, I'm against the death penalty and also against assisted dying.

@Comedycook there probably will be awful families or people suggesting it with no warm intent. There need to be checks in place. And even with checks, there may even be doctors who bring it up. I don't believe we are going to have 100s of people dragging granny down to get put to sleep with appropriate checks.

People do not consider how horrific the suffering can be for so many. And it can go on and on. There is no warm fluffy lets get you to hospice story for alot of people. They get left screaming and then drugged in the corner in a hospital bed and I've watched it too many times.

We also have to think of all those bodged attempts people may make to take their own life when they feel no other choice. People really do not die easy!

Finally,just knowing this is an option will give many people the strengths to fight another day. It removes a great deal of fear and hopelessness.

I'm saying it's a kind of life or death situation that is open to mistakes being made.

And further, mistakes that cannot be rectified!

They get left screaming and then drugged in the corner in a hospital bed and I've watched it too many times.

This is one of the things that I won't forget. The screams of agony and pain which couldn't be alleviated. It's a horrific end.

@pansyposey I am sorry you have had to witness this.

The level of suffering one can endure and still not pass is something I believe alot of well intentioned people cannot comprehend.

The analogy that there will at some point be a 'mistake,'. Ie. An innocent person executed/a person assisted to die who doesn't really want to.

That's a really rubbish analogy though, given that with an assisted suicide you're talking about a person who is already dying, whereas with a death penalty situation you're talking about a person who has committed no crime and is otherwise healthy being actually murdered by the state.

The comparison is not (obviously, I thought) between a dying person and a murderer on Death Row..

The comparison you drew in your post was between a dying person who did not want an assisted death and an innocent person on Death Row being executed.

Which is, I repeat, a rubbish comparison because the one is already dying and the other absolutely is not.

I'm theoretically in favour of assisted dying, but surely we're in no position to implement this properly. At the moment, we can't seem to manage to provide everyone with decent, equal access to high-quality, TIMELY healthcare, dignified residential care when we can no longer care for ourselves, etc etc.

I've been researching this topic a lot so that I can hold a more informed opinion. One of my biggest concerns is that assisted dying may not actually provide a peaceful, dignified death unless very carefully administered. For example, this paper details some of the things that can go wrong (I advise caution before reading it because it contains distressing accounts of deaths) : www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9270985/

I expect safeguards could be put in place, such as requiring a physician to always be present and requiring all assisted death complications to be reported so that protocols can be improved. But I just don't trust our government to implement it properly as things stand at the moment.

I'd feel a lot more easy about it if the choice is between excellent, compassionate end-of-life care/supported living in an excellent care home where people are truly cared for, and assisted dying. That's a proper choice. One could say that as care is often so poor, surely it's better that patients have the choice of assisted dying. But will governments really find the motivation to improve elder care and care for people with serious illnesses if we introduce assisted dying first before improving the NHS and care system?

And yes, I have witnessed a distressing death of someone I loved. What was needed in their specific circumstances was MUCH better care- they wouldn't have wanted assisted dying. I know many people do and I believe they should have that right, but we need to make sure we're providing the services that ARE available properly and consistently first before we even think about introducing assisted dying.

Yes.

This is demonstrably the reality of Assisted Dying* *in a modern western country which has already implemented it.

There is no guarantee that in the future the UK will fare any better. Especially given recent court cases- for example the absolutely chilling ordeal of ‘ST’, the 19 year old who although she had expressed her strong desire to continue living & seek treatment overseas, was nevertheless denied her wish.

Her parents said

“Day after day in the intensive care ward we and ST had to exist and keep going in an environment that had given up on her right and wish to live. Death we were told was the only remedy and the only hope.”

christianconcern.com/ccpressreleases/19-year-old-woman-dies-after-being-blocked-by-the-nhs-from-pursuing-treatment-abroad/

Yep. This.

@Remaker It was in 1999 in a HOSPICE would you believe.

This.

Don't pass it. People will be murdered legally , just like abortion

If you agree with a PP can't you just say "yes, I agree with [insert poster name here] instead of quoting their whole 600 words again and making the thread ridiculously long?

I'm very pleased to see there might be a vote on moving towards the legalisation of assisted dying in the UK.

In theory, i would definitely wish to end my life if i had e.g. dementia.

However there is not a hope in hell that the UK will be able to implement this without there being a huge scandal somewhere along the line. This will end in non consensual deaths, other countries may manage but the UK will definitely fuck it up

The case you've linked to has nothing whatsoever to do with Assisted Dying, and you've completely ignored my point about safeguards and AD only being applicable in cases where the terminally ill have expressed prior consent.

Scaremongering nonsense.

And yes, I have witnessed a distressing death of someone I loved. What was needed in their specific circumstances was MUCH better care- they wouldn't have wanted assisted dying.

So they can opt not to take that option

How wonderfully compassionate of you though to insist upon denying that choice to people who absolutely would have taken it.

Why do you think the UK will "definitely fuck it up" @Namechanger385u4p ? At the moment people in the UK who want assisted dying have to travel to countries that allow it with all the associated costs and complicated travel arrangements.

What makes you think those other countries have legislation that the UK couldn't replicate?

For example, this paper details some of the things that can go wrong (I advise caution before reading it because it contains distressing accounts of deaths) : www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9270985/

oh that is a hard read 😢😥
and a must read for everyone with an interest in assisted dying- both supporters of and those who oppose it.

Absolutely agree with this. Currently watching MIL as a shell of herself with aphasia and it's horrendous. Dh and I have both said that we would rather die then end up like that, it's no way to live, it's not a life. She can't speak, she doesn't recognise anyone and just lies in bed all day long as she can't walk. I would never, ever want that life.

@XDownwiththissortofthingX this is really naive. This is one example. You need to be around people screaming or people trying to end their lives and messing it up because the suffering is intolerable.

These situations are real and they happen - you're just not seeing them directly. Many will do all they can to save their family and those family members won't always realise the level of suffering going on.

Can you image how it is for people who are so seriously unwell, dying slowly vomiting their own feaces up and screaming to be released. You know this happens to people.

I'm sick of armchair do gooders having no comprehension of this situation.

The NHS is not getting fixed in most of our lifetimes so I'd rather had this option quite frankly. Even the best hospice care and medication would not relieve examples like those above.

Absolutely not.

What happened to ST only highlights how an ill person who wanted to live and was psychologically deemed competent was denied her right to life and to bodily autonomy in our medical and judicial system.

You think there will be adequate “safeguards” to ensure consent if we implement physician assisted suicide or euthanasia in the same system?
Not a chance.

what happened in Canada please @poppyzbrite4