Looks likely a vote on assisted dying is imminent

[fragrantdog]

‘A vote to introduce assisted dying across the UK could be imminent after Downing Street reiterated that it would not obstruct a private member’s bill on the issue and indicated it would support an MP in drafting it.’

This is a Private Members bill.

"Governments" wont touch this in the first place because the optics of it aren't great for electability. Different story if it's a personal point of principle, because then it's far simpler to elucidate the intent behind it because there's usually a personal story attached, usually not much different to the umpteen posters in this thread explaining precisely why they are in favour.

The idea that governments want to "kill off" old people is palpably nonsense when the same governments spend billions on healthcare, primarily preoccupied with extending and enhancing the natural lifespan of humans.

Fortunately, since Healthcare is a devolved matter, and, unlike Westminster, there is no completely unjustifiable religious representation in the Scots parliamentary system, the Catholic church, or any other church for that matter, will have no more ability to interfere in the progress of this bill than any other outside party.

https://www.parliament.scot/bills-and-laws/bills/assisted-dying-for-terminally-ill-adults-scotland-bill

My wonderful friend died a slow, painful and humiliating death of cancer some years ago. Her 16 year old child had to witness her fading away in front of him, but slowly, over weeks/months, until she was a yellow husk basically. Everything was accompanied by horrible smells and indignities Ever been so constipated you had to have a 'manual extraction'? Ever had to rely on your sister, with whom you had a difficult relationship, to change your incontinence pad? Been sick repeatedly in front of your son, and once or twice all over him? All knowing you will not get better, and it will only get worse? Had to wait until Monday for the nurse with the painkillers to come to your house and therefore spent the weekend screaming in agony while your child weeps because he can't help you? No? Is that what you want for yourself? For your loved ones?

It's absolutely not what I want and I will do everything in my power not to put my loved ones through watching me go like this.

I feel like once you allow one thing, the only thing that happens over time is the boundaries get pushed. So one day it's those with terminal illnesses, then people with disabilities, then those with mental health conditions...it is terrifying. I am scared that this seems to be so popular. Be careful what you wish for.

Assisted dying happens in other countries, where are these wide scale slippery slope problems resulting in the culling of disabled people and people with mental health problems?

It doesn’t happen.

Just like the abortion argument, women aren’t lining up for abortions at 39 weeks pregnant despite the hard line scaremongering.

I am also concerned that there is an assumption that anyone who is terminally ill and suffering will be desperate for this. That when assisted dying is being considered, that of course they should want it, that's the "right" answer. We had a relative who died from cancer...I remember my grandmother visiting her, she told me she was screaming that she didn't want to die.

I honestly struggle to believe that anyone against assisted dying has actually cared for a close relative with a slow terminal illness resulting in zero quality of life for months.

About bloody time too.

What makes you think it’s being sped through Parliament? There’s not even a bill up for discussion. If there is, it’ll be a Private Member’s Bill, not a government one. Nobody is, or will be, speeding anything. People need to step back from all the scare stories and look at the facts.

My attitude exactly. My life, my choice.

I'm totally pro choice but time limits aside, yes, women have been coerced and forced into having abortions they haven't wanted by their male partners and other relatives...

Thank God. It’s long overdue. Anyone who has experienced watching a loved one last days on end of life care will welcome this.

The Mail and the Express seem to think this is vote-winner with The Olds. I wouldn't be so sure about that.

Scaremongering nonsense. If you look at cause of euthanasia statistics from the Netherlands, they do not in any way support your argument.

A small handful of people with mental ill health have been permitted an assisted suicide - this has been after years, sometimes decades, of suffering and trying every treatment on option. So answer me this: how long do you think a person with severe and enduring mental ill health that does not respond to treatment should suffer before you think they're allowed an end? How long do you think they should be tortured with hope?

No system will ever be perfect. There will be errors and extremely difficult cases. But leaving things as they stand is not an option - it's cruelty.

I absolutely hope this happens, I’ve never watched anyone die in the awful way that some people have had to on this thread and I’m sorry that you and your loved ones had to go through that.

I have however watched a family member live with MND, which was horrific for her. She tried to get VAD in Australia and just missed it because she died the day it became law.

Those who oppose this put me in mind of pro lifers, happy to make stands against someone else’s right to do what they want with their own body on the basis of their own principles and using the very small minority of cases which are problematic to make their point.

There is limited data on this, but what there is suggests that the number of women coerced into abortions they didn't want during lockdown and via telemedicine was about a third lower than the number of women who were coerced by abusive partners into NOT having that abortion when they wanted it.

Thats not ok either. But I think either way, it shows that coercion happens and I see no reason it wouldn't also happen with assisted dying.

It's a subject I'm torn on, and, unlike many issues, I can see genuinely held views on both sides. I think we need to be very careful before adopting a policy which to align us with the 'good guys'; this is how half the problem started with 'woke'! The better comparison might be with capital punishment; if you support CP, you are tacitly accepting that there will be a few cases in which innocent people are executed, albeit, hopefully very rarely. And that's considered to be 'a price worth paying'. Likewise with assisted dying, surely, whatever the safeguards, there will be a few cases, of people being coerced for financial or other gain. There is bound to be. But again, it would be hoped that it would be so rare as to be a price worth paying.

Why is the UK any different from other countries where assisted dying has been successfully implemented? (I do not class Canada's implementation as successful). Let's see evidence of coercion first. We know it happens with abortion - we have no evidence that it happens with assisted dying. And yes, we both know there will have been sporadic cases but that's where we have to be pragmatic - where it's happened and it has been uncovered, stiff jail sentences need to follow as a deterrent, but ultimately the situation we have now, where literally thousands if not tens of thousands of people are dying in agony every year with no choice, is worse.

Yes I think this a good analogy. I think it's inevitable that with assisted dying, there will be very occasional mistakes. Do we accept that for the benefit it will bring to some?

How’s it a good analogy? Genuine question.

In one situation the person is executed against their will, in the other the person wants to choose to die peacefully rather than in trauma. I genuinely don’t see the comparison.

The analogy that there will at some point be a 'mistake,'. Ie. An innocent person executed/a person assisted to die who doesn't really want to.

As long as it’s properly regulated I think it should be allowed.

I prey that this gets passed. It would mean everything to me and so many others who are suffering an unimaginable hell most people could never comprehend.

I've watched people dying during my multiple multiple hospital stays and unless you have watched this, you have no clue.

There are risks and I'm well aware of that. However, it is utterly cruel to expect people to live in the most abject suffering. People often don't just drift off to death like on TV. People who oppose this need to experience physical suffering beyond comprehension then we'll come back and ask you again a week down the line

I do think there's a massive underestimation of the human desire to live to be honest. Most people, most of the time want to live even when the quality of life is, to someone on the outside very very poor.

They might want to spend more time with the people they love, they might be scared of the unknown, but also it's one of our most basic and strongest instincts.

When someone really wants to die, and they can express that clearly and consistently over time after all palliative and psychological measures that are available have been offered and haven't changed their mind, then I think we can believe them.

I do think quite a bit of the time people aren't heard and aren't believed because we don't want them to die. Either because we love them and can't bear to lose them, or it's seen as failure of our care.

As things stand, people with terminal illnesses can refuse interventions that might give them a bit longer. We respect that they have that right to decide they've had enough, even if their family is distraught and desperate for them to continue. Do we think that some people are coerced into refusing treatment for financial gain? If so, what are we doing about it?