Help me make sense of how I feel? Transgender person in the loo.

[ScottishLottie]

I think of myself as very liberal - very 'live and let live', love is love and people should be absolutely free to be whomever they want to be.

Went into our local city on Fri last week and noticed a higher amount of transgender folk (specifically man to woman), socialising in the area. "Good on them!" I thought. Love living and working in a society where they're able to do this. I was actually interested and looked up why there might have been so many more trans people around and apparently there's some sort of 'First Friday' trans event whereby trans people congregate in trans-friendly bars and restaurants in the area on the first Friday of the month.

Fast forward to the next night and I was in the city again, having taken by 15 yr old DD and her friend to the theatre.

On coming out of the theatre, she needed the loo before we left, so her and the friend went in and I waited outside. As I was waiting, a transgender woman (quite a big, strong, butch-looking person underneath the dress and the makeup) entered the female bathroom and I had a completely visceral reaction. I was horrified that DD and friend were in a space where they might be a bit more vulnerable and they should be absolutely safe in a female-only environment.

Nothing happened of course, but I was surprised and ashamed that I felt the way I did.

What is the reason behind this? Why do I have opinions and feelings that I wasn't aware of? I feel awful but want to understand why I felt this way?

I didn't bring it up.

That's a separate issue. Of course you can be rude to a man who is trying to assault you. Fuck him.

You should not be rude to trans men or women to their faces to make a point.

Nope. I'm an interested reader who has been appalled by the behaviour of a large group of posters over the last few pages.

Is a fly-by scolding better or worse than the persistent scolding you've been giving the PP for her crime of wrongthink?

Ok, I need to be able to tell this particular nurse who has turned up and introduced himself as ‘Claire’ that he will not be caring for my elderly mother as he is male and we requested no males with the agency.

Is that ok in your mind or unacceptably rude?

Right, okay. I don't think anyone is advocating that?

How can a person with a vagina be violating women's boundaries by being in a space used by people with vaginas?

You mean like the ones saying I wouldn't put my pronouns in an email signature? Or the ones pointing out you can't swear at other posters because it's against MNs rules?

Not sure either of those is particularly objectionable.

You've made posts regarding this issue on various threads that I've seen, so forgive me if I don't take your assessment of this specific discussion particularly to heart.

If as you say you believe in people being their authentic selves then you surely you believe that this man should be a man. He authentically is a male. He's playing dress up and commandeering hard won female only spaces, making him a mysoginist too

Who has vaginas? I'm confused. Where did the 'vagina people' party come from? Are we abandoning the word 'woman' altogether now?

Just yet another distraction then.

Woe betide women having strong feelings about keeping women & girls safe and rape victims being compelled to call their rapists she.

How unbecoming of us to get angry about a belief system that put male feelings first 🙄

This.

Vagina haver and penis wielders, isn't there any easier words for these?

Why is the “cubicle” part always trotted out?

In my half century and more on this planet I’ve never had to piss and shit in open toilets.

But yet they have STILL been single sex!

why is that?!

I saw only one person denying that they would do this.

Along with a lot of people saying what about X or Y, when I had made myself perfectly clear.

Again, this is why no one bothers to engage with you. I just happen to be made of old boot leather so I'll make my point on this thread. Am I planning on heading over to the board to discuss this further? Not on your life. I'll leave you to your self created echo chamber.

And I'm sorry if you object to it being called an echo chamber, but when you've isolated yourselves into one area and all you do is congratulate each other on unquestionably having the right of it, I don't know what else to call it.

Again attempting to shame women for not behaving in a kindly enough manner.

The irony is that the insults have all come from one 'side', (I won't go back over them again) and the rest of us are being pilloried for disagreement.

Insults don't bother me, as I've said, they are generally more indicative of flaws in the person's argument and a subsequent defensive response than of anything else. I also understand that it's very uncomfortable to have lots of people disagree with you and that can be stressful.

I've no desire to upset anyone, and I don't think Pailletten seems upset, she seems quite capable of talking for herself.

But if you are upset, Pailletten, then please say so. I'll happily apologise if my questions or posts have upset you.

I've found it interesting to look closely at 'rudeness' and social standards of politeness and expectations.

I don’t care about being rude. I literally couldn’t give a stuff. I value my right to speak the truth and my own feelings, comfort and rights over those of men larping as women.

And I don’t see telling men who say they are women that they are still men is rude anyway

Your post went up while I was typing mine.

I'm sorry, Paillette, but your posts have not been clear. I've been doing my best to grasp your argument but it has been quite confused in places.

For the avoidance of doubt: I would not approach a 'trans' person out of the blue to tell them what sex they are. I can't imagine many people would. Why would they?

I note with interest that some posts from a specific poster have been deleted for breaching guidelines.

See, in Scotland, haver is something else altogether, I always read that phrase wrong! 😂

Yes and people who accused me of being “as bad as Scarlet Blake” when I referred to him as a man

I'm willing to bet the farm that 99% of the posters on this thread wouldn't either.

What does it mean Arabella?

Tbh physicality doesn't change and I'll choose to protect myself and my dd if she's with me and not say anything.

I'm likely to be weaker physically and will not invite a response.

I do want the law to change though, and will vote for that if politicians ever listen to women.

Holy fuck. Because misgendering is just like animal torture and murder?!