Help me make sense of how I feel? Transgender person in the loo.

[ScottishLottie]

I think of myself as very liberal - very 'live and let live', love is love and people should be absolutely free to be whomever they want to be.

Went into our local city on Fri last week and noticed a higher amount of transgender folk (specifically man to woman), socialising in the area. "Good on them!" I thought. Love living and working in a society where they're able to do this. I was actually interested and looked up why there might have been so many more trans people around and apparently there's some sort of 'First Friday' trans event whereby trans people congregate in trans-friendly bars and restaurants in the area on the first Friday of the month.

Fast forward to the next night and I was in the city again, having taken by 15 yr old DD and her friend to the theatre.

On coming out of the theatre, she needed the loo before we left, so her and the friend went in and I waited outside. As I was waiting, a transgender woman (quite a big, strong, butch-looking person underneath the dress and the makeup) entered the female bathroom and I had a completely visceral reaction. I was horrified that DD and friend were in a space where they might be a bit more vulnerable and they should be absolutely safe in a female-only environment.

Nothing happened of course, but I was surprised and ashamed that I felt the way I did.

What is the reason behind this? Why do I have opinions and feelings that I wasn't aware of? I feel awful but want to understand why I felt this way?

Well I must be the 1% then, I speak as freely in real life as I do on here.

To talk shite:

https://www.dsl.ac.uk/entry/snd/haiver_v_n1

Although I see I've spelled it wrong all these years.

I'm willing to bet the farm that 99% of the posters on this thread wouldn't either.

Because we're intimidated by strange males when we are vulnerable and come across them in a women's space and don't want to provoke them? What do you think that proves, exactly?

Thanks, I love learning new word meanings.

Again, this is why no one bothers to engage with you.

So? Why do you care so much if that's the case or not?

FWIW I would never call a trans woman a man to his face, precisely because he’s a man and men are physically stronger than me.

Oh no, I'm not upset. But thanks for checking. It'll take a lot more than this to get to me! 😁

Besides, this response was wholly predictable. Which was my original point at the beginning of the thread.

As I also predicted, it will go on and on and nothing will be resolved at the end of it. We'll still have trans women and men using the appropriate toilet, we'll still have men (by which I mean men) and women sharing the same hospital ward, you'll all be even more entrenched in your views that trans people deserve what they get, and then it will all start over again on the next thread.

Until someone is prepared to accept that trans people are not going away and there does need to be some compromise, this discussion will continue to be fruitless.

But yeah, you can have at a pile on. Like I said, my grandmother was tougher than you lot! 😊

Agreed

i generally wouldn’t misgender someone to their face but A) the they thing is fucking hard and B) depends on the situation

Because I know you want to resolve the things you're worried about and it's painful watching you fail to do that over and over again.

We'll still have trans women and men using the appropriate toilet

And just what is "the appropriate toilet"?

Because a man was violating yours and your daughter's privacy and boundaries. The visceral reaction you experienced was the feeling of violation, coupled with fear at the dominance of him and the powerlessness of yourself.

Yet you are the one failing to answer questions. Over and over again.

The insults have all come from one side?

The PP in question has been called an abuser, a gas lighter, a bully, and a troll. They have been told they have been groomed, and that they are kneeling to men. They have been accused of being a PBP. There have been numerous passive aggressive digs about their intentions.

Come on now.

Why should we compromise? They won't. Why is our comfort less important than theirs?
I will not compromise because once you give an inch they take a mile!

It's not fruitless. Things change. We had Self ID from many politicians until they realised it was the wrong way to go. Puberty blockers too.

You may want the status quo but other women do not. As for toughness of your grandmother I mean.. ok

Until someone is prepared to accept that trans people are not going away and there does need to be some compromise

Why would any woman need to compromise their safety and dignity for a man? If a man doesn't feel safe in men's spaces why aren't men being asked to 'compromise' or why aren't they campaigning for third spaces?

Because I know you want to resolve the things you're worried about and it's painful watching you fail to do that over and over again.

Thanks for your concern, but I'm happy with what I do.

This is such rubbish.

You can always tell when a man is dressed as a woman, because they're fucking huge and look like men dressed as women.

If they use the loo and no one says anything, it's not because they pass, it's because women are too scared to say anything in case it kicks off their male rage.

the thread has gone so off piste that i have completely forgotten what the original OP was

Not really.

Okay, so we're all good. Glad we got that cleared up.

@DadJoke can you see women might be aware it's best to keep safe rather than engage at all for this reason?

Yes. OP was concerned about how objecting to males in women's spaces was 'illiberal'.

I suppose it's all a look at the social contract, in a way. With object lessons. Whether some people are held to higher standards than others, and why.

The insults have all come from one side?

Not entirely. But lots of the objectionable posts the pp made to other posters appear to have been deleted, so I'll assume you're new to the thread this morning and hadn't seen them.

You are wrong that nothing changes. Highgate school in London went back on its proposal to have a unisex loo after both male and female students objected, as did their parents. The next year they had complaints about male students sexually assaulting their female students, so they dodged a bullet.

I think you are optimistic if you think men in women's spaces will last. It won't, Just like men in women's sports didn't last.