Help me make sense of how I feel? Transgender person in the loo.

[ScottishLottie]

I think of myself as very liberal - very 'live and let live', love is love and people should be absolutely free to be whomever they want to be.

Went into our local city on Fri last week and noticed a higher amount of transgender folk (specifically man to woman), socialising in the area. "Good on them!" I thought. Love living and working in a society where they're able to do this. I was actually interested and looked up why there might have been so many more trans people around and apparently there's some sort of 'First Friday' trans event whereby trans people congregate in trans-friendly bars and restaurants in the area on the first Friday of the month.

Fast forward to the next night and I was in the city again, having taken by 15 yr old DD and her friend to the theatre.

On coming out of the theatre, she needed the loo before we left, so her and the friend went in and I waited outside. As I was waiting, a transgender woman (quite a big, strong, butch-looking person underneath the dress and the makeup) entered the female bathroom and I had a completely visceral reaction. I was horrified that DD and friend were in a space where they might be a bit more vulnerable and they should be absolutely safe in a female-only environment.

Nothing happened of course, but I was surprised and ashamed that I felt the way I did.

What is the reason behind this? Why do I have opinions and feelings that I wasn't aware of? I feel awful but want to understand why I felt this way?

No ones life is being curtailed. They're simply being asked to use appropriate sex facilities, like everybody else.

We disagree on what's appropriate. If someone is a trans woman, it's appropriate for them to use the women's toilet.

Sending a fully transitioned trans woman into the men's is bizarre. I'm sure the men don't want her in there either.

Why must women be responsible for the choices men make?

They should campaign for appropriate third spaces.

As women did for womens rights to spaces protected from males.

Why would it ever be inappropriate for a man to use the men's? No one can change sex.

Why are you much more concerned about what men want than what women want?

Exactly. Women aren't shields or men's support animals.

If men are uncomfortable with other men in their spaces - why would that be a woman's problem?

If that 'man' is a trans woman.

You're never going to get anywhere with this if you won't appreciate that a trans woman is not the same as a man.

It's not my job to persuade you of that. But it's vanishingly unlikely that you'll get everyone to agree with you that trans women should be treated like a man.

We're obviously not going to get anywhere with this. That's not the world we live in though so it's going to be a hard life for you pushing back against the impossible.

There are a couple of fully transitioned transwomen I know of who actively avoid women's spaces.

They are very aware of the issues women face in life and empathetic.

They are aware they aren't women and respect that women have rights to single sex spaces.

If there are transwomen who do this we must question the reasoning and motivation behind all males who choose to use female spaces.

I'm just going to leave you to your bubble. Enjoy it.

You're trying to define sex via something other than sex. So no, you aren't going to get anywhere with that.

i will always fight for women's rights, safety and dignity, thanks. Even if it's more fashionable to champion men who want to undermine that.

Again, I've got nothing to say.

I'm sure you think you're doing the right thing.

It gives me a sour taste in my mouth reading this stuff though.

It will always be the right thing in my eyes to priotise women's safety and dignity over men's feelings. I feel somewhat appalled by those who do the opposite, but it's a free country, you do you.

If reality upsets people, that's sad, but not anyone else's issue to fix. For one thing, it won't work.

I hope that anyone with genuine dysphoria is getting the counselling they need. But false affirmation is no more the answer here than affirming anorexics perceptions that they are overweight.

That's a completely separate issue and certainly not a comparable analogy.

I'm sure they're aware that they're biologically male, as am I. That doesn't excuse rudeness on my part though.

It's a shame you would do something like that. It really is. I find it quite unpleasant. It smacks of bullying to me.

That kind of behaviour is definitely not for me and I don't really want to talk about it any further. I feel like I've just stepped on a slug barefoot actually.

I'm just going to leave you to your bubble. Enjoy it.

I find that comment offensive.

Because I have been sexually assaulted, I have had a miscarriage in public loos and i have sought refuge when I have needed to in clubs.

Those three transwomen I know of have more more concern and respect for women and their rights than you appear to.

I do not understand why people need to be compelled to lie in order to not be rude. True respect is always based on truthful interaction.

And as I've said before, women's
s safety and dignity will always matter more to me than men's feelings. I have my own opinions on people who prioritise the latter.

TheKeatingFive, PaillettenBedeckt has no sure reasoning left for their arguments and is resorting to put downs.

The irony.

Slugs and bubbles are not good arguments for why males should be in female spaces and you know it.

Go well.

Quite

If you're telling me you'd call a trans woman he and a man to her face, then that is incredibly rude.

It does you no harm to be polite and respectful, regardless of your views.

It genuinely creeps me out that someone would act in such poor taste to make a point. I don't understand why you'd have such bad manners, I really don't. Which is a shame because you seem otherwise like a decent person.

That's how I feel. Reading comments that people would deliberately upset someone for no good reason makes me physically recoil from the screen.

I just couldn't behave like that.

As @WarriorN points out, all you have now are insults and shaming attempts.

I will never agree that the polite or kind thing to do is to lie about something fundamental. Physically 'recoil' from that all you like.

Yer insults and attempts to shame

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