Help me make sense of how I feel? Transgender person in the loo.

[ScottishLottie]

I think of myself as very liberal - very 'live and let live', love is love and people should be absolutely free to be whomever they want to be.

Went into our local city on Fri last week and noticed a higher amount of transgender folk (specifically man to woman), socialising in the area. "Good on them!" I thought. Love living and working in a society where they're able to do this. I was actually interested and looked up why there might have been so many more trans people around and apparently there's some sort of 'First Friday' trans event whereby trans people congregate in trans-friendly bars and restaurants in the area on the first Friday of the month.

Fast forward to the next night and I was in the city again, having taken by 15 yr old DD and her friend to the theatre.

On coming out of the theatre, she needed the loo before we left, so her and the friend went in and I waited outside. As I was waiting, a transgender woman (quite a big, strong, butch-looking person underneath the dress and the makeup) entered the female bathroom and I had a completely visceral reaction. I was horrified that DD and friend were in a space where they might be a bit more vulnerable and they should be absolutely safe in a female-only environment.

Nothing happened of course, but I was surprised and ashamed that I felt the way I did.

What is the reason behind this? Why do I have opinions and feelings that I wasn't aware of? I feel awful but want to understand why I felt this way?

You saw a man follow your daughter into the ladies' room. You were quite right to be worried.

Wait: he was wearing a dress, you say?

BIGOT!

Indeed.

For many males, from what we see on social media, it is the act of transgressing female people's boundaries that is the attraction.

We are told regularly that there are plenty of people with friends who are male people who have transgender identities who still use the male toilets or they find an alternative space. We don't get posters telling us that these male friends have any issues using those male toilets.

Yet, the myth of UK male danger in male toilets is rolled out on most pages of threads such as these. Not one person has ever been able to post anything that substantiates this at all.

Because it is not about safety. It is about transgressing female people's boundaries.

I fear male violence. I don't want to share a toilet with them.
If you ask yourself why toilets were ever made single sex, then you have the answer as to why trans identified men should either be in the mens toilet or fight for their own space. They should not be in the women's

We women always say you should “trust your gut instincts” - we do well to remember that.

This sounds like the beginning of every one of those "How did you peak?" story.

Welcome to the club, OP.

@Yogiweed So just because you don't have a problem with men in womens toilets no one else should?

Also on the subject of "gender neutral" toilets, that would be fine as long as there are still single sex toilets as well, but then I suspect these men would still choose the single sex womens space over the mixed sex space, so there is no point to "gender neutral" in the first place.

Who on this thread regardless of how you feel about this debate would use a mixed sex toilet over a single sex on?
I would opt for single sex everytime!

Don’t we already have disabled loos?
Any I’ve seen are fully enclosed little rooms with a bit of extra space.
Why can’t they use those?

Actually, fewer and fewer do because it becomes so unpleasant that it has to be put into a specific board and kept from being listed on most active.

If you were prepared to listen to nuances and differing opinions without shoving your own down their throats until they choke, maybe that wouldn't be the case. As it is, it's now an echo chamber. So again, it's pointless.

This is the grim reality:

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/herne-bay/news/man-with-fetish-for-listening-to-women-urinate-caught-in-pub-312009/

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/transgender-sex-offender-who-attacked-29765751

Am I interpreting this graphic correctly? Does it show that men identifying as women are 5 times more likely to commit a sexual offence then regular men?

If so I am blown away, and will shout EVEN LOUDER on this topic everywhere I go!

What’s not constructive about women ‘chatting’ about issues that concern us?

Annaleise Dodds has (today I think) stated that the government doesn’t intend to amend the Equality Act in ways that will protect women.

Many women are sick to death of being gaslit by men who want to remove safeguarding through single sex spaces and sports. And you don’t think we should ‘chat’ about issues that affect us? What, precisely is disingenuous about women using a chat forum to talk about things that affect us? If we see fit & find it constructive to discuss things that affect us more than once why does that bother you so much.

As I said before, ignore and scroll on.

We’re going nowhere.

Because you aren't used to seeing trans people?

I can understand you being taken aback by a transwoman in the loo, but it's your need to google why there were transwomen in the pub in the first place that makes me think you probably aren't as 'liberal' and free thinking as you think you are.

but it's your need to google why there were transwomen in the pub in the first place

She specifically said it was because there were a higher than usual amount of them.

There is a balance to be had between being 'free thinking' and being so open minded your brain falls out.

Men in women's spaces is a big fat no, and always has been. Everyone knows why.

I think it's strange that you really didn't think this through before. Are your daughter and her friend the only women/girls whose safety matters to you? Why wouldn't it have occured to you before that many girls and women (especially those in the large proportion who have suffered sexual assault, abuse or harassment) would not feel safe with blokes in dresses in their toilets and changing rooms? Your attitude sounds like a luxury belief tbh.

City pubs and restaurants aren't women's only spaces, are they?

No one said they were.

We also know that men have sexual fetishes for things like listening to women pee and collecting used sanitary items (they are quite proud of it on social media). There was a conviction in Kent recently, of an old man who admitted enacting his sexual fetish of listening to women pee.

Oh my good god, does their depravity know no bounds? I've read and listened to a lot about trans stuff, but wasn't aware of this. Gross.

@arabellascott was replying to my post, if you'd care to read it.

Did you read the title of the thread?

Here is 'Kim', a man who likes to film himself in shopping centres, ladies' toilets, etc, wearing stockings and short skirts. He does his best to get reactions from women and children, as evidenced in his commentary.

This is his sanitised account, it's creepy but not especially graphic. His only fans presumably has the graphic stuff on it.

All of what @Helleofabore said.