Help me make sense of how I feel? Transgender person in the loo.

[ScottishLottie]

I think of myself as very liberal - very 'live and let live', love is love and people should be absolutely free to be whomever they want to be.

Went into our local city on Fri last week and noticed a higher amount of transgender folk (specifically man to woman), socialising in the area. "Good on them!" I thought. Love living and working in a society where they're able to do this. I was actually interested and looked up why there might have been so many more trans people around and apparently there's some sort of 'First Friday' trans event whereby trans people congregate in trans-friendly bars and restaurants in the area on the first Friday of the month.

Fast forward to the next night and I was in the city again, having taken by 15 yr old DD and her friend to the theatre.

On coming out of the theatre, she needed the loo before we left, so her and the friend went in and I waited outside. As I was waiting, a transgender woman (quite a big, strong, butch-looking person underneath the dress and the makeup) entered the female bathroom and I had a completely visceral reaction. I was horrified that DD and friend were in a space where they might be a bit more vulnerable and they should be absolutely safe in a female-only environment.

Nothing happened of course, but I was surprised and ashamed that I felt the way I did.

What is the reason behind this? Why do I have opinions and feelings that I wasn't aware of? I feel awful but want to understand why I felt this way?

Posting recipes? Wow, virtual violence.

A man pretending to be a woman entered a female only space wearing a skirt. Your teenage daughter and her friend were in there and you quite rightly questioned their safety.

I don’t care what his motives are for wanting to wear a skirt, he is not and will never be a woman and so should have no right to enter a female only space even on freaky Friday.

I am GC and have been for a long time, but was surprised nonetheles how visceral my reaction was the first time this happened to me.

I'm sort of embarassed about this but I realised it's because on some instinctive level, I'm convinced that he was in there getting some kind of sexual thrill out of being in the cubicle next to a woman with her pants down. I really hope this is NOT the case (although I suspect it is sometimes) but that's my visceral, instinctive response it turned out.

Fuck!

"its about your ability to override them by understanding that other people's feelings need to be taken into account as well."

No. OP and no other female person has to override their instincts, or their need for a single sex space to be single sex.

This is a very harmful thing to post.

NO FEMALE PEOPLE SHOULD BE TOLD TO GET OVER THEIR NEEDS FOR SINGLE SEX SPACES.

What do you want me to do about it, exactly? Nothing, you just want to tell me what you think and insult me if I don't agree.

We've had countless repetitions of this thread, nothing gets resolved, it gets needlessly heated, and yes it's tedious at this point.

That's why people don't like these threads. They descend into nit picking, name calling, and bullying.

If you want to know my opinion, I think both sides of the debate take things way too far. And polarising conversations like this where the purpose is to shout down anyone who doesn't agree with them actually makes things worse.

But I don't want 'unisex' toilets. I do not want to wee, change my tampon, or do intimate things in the same room as any man. I don't even want to blow my nose next to a male colleague.
Women want their own, separate toilets.
We don't want to share and be kind.

I don't want to do it, my 10 year old niece doesn't want to do it, my 76 year old mum doesn't want to do it, none of my female work colleagues want to do it.

The only people that want to do it are men.

Why should we have unisex toilets? Why?

Why on earth do men who wish to dress as women have to use women's loos? Why can't they use the men's loos? Why?

I was suprised at how strongly I reacted when I first came across a man in a women's bathroom. It felt so invasive, like i had lost something I assumed I would always have. And he was clearly wanting me to acknowledge him, to affirm him, and I just felt so uncomfortable and creeped out by that - the behaviour was off, it wasn't how women behave in those spaces. True entitlement.

You were shocked as you think if trans as people going to bars and were faced with the fact that any man can say he is a woman and go into spaces where women are
vulnerable such as loos, changing rooms, rape crisis centers, women’s prisons and women’s sports.

This is Mumsnet. Didn't you expect this?

Can you show us the evidence that supports your belief that "trans women are highly unlikely to be predatory."

https://x.com/eyeslasho/status/1831735103082410239

I doubt the veracity of your claim.

I think so too.

Because a man doesn’t belong in a female single sex space regardless of how he chooses to present - why feel ashamed for accepting reality?

Aside from a trans woman being a predator or not, I just don't want a bloke in the women's loos.

And none of us need to justify that to anyone least of all to any men.

Your alarm bells went off because a man went into the women’s toilet. A man has a penis and a penis can be a weapon. This is not shameful; it’s reality.

Oh good god 🤮

You see, once I would have agreed with you about both sides taking it too far.

Now I don’t, there is literally no benefit to women that I can see from trans activism.

What I find interesting about you is that if you find all of this tedious you could ignore or hide or scroll on. The fact you have referred to posts about recipes indicates that you have more of an interest in these issues than that and that’s why many of us see posts like yours not as neutral but as ah attempt to shut women up.

if you find it tedious , just don’t engage , hth.

I certainly wouldn't like it!

I don't think it's a ;physical thing, nor a mental one.
It's simply that I believe there's a place for only men and certainly only women in some situations. And toilets, changing rooms etc. are those.

No thank you.

I don't want to wash blood off my hands when standing next to a man, or having to wedge the door open with the pram.

And single cubicles like that tend to be open at floor level, just perfect for men to slide phones and cameras underneath. It's been regularly reported these past few years that this happens in changing rooms as well as toilets.

No to gender neutral - which actually is a smoke and mirrors phrase for MIXED SEX. Please start using the correct words. Mixed Sex.

I don't fear men. I don't like them much. But I don't fear them.

I don’t know what the answer is—there is a big difference between a trans woman like Ella from Married at First Sight / Celebs Go Dating and a big bearded bloke who has thrown on a wig for the day.

I see zero difference. They're both male. They're both violating women's boundaries if they use our spaces.

Every time a thread like this appears, more and more people read.

And they read about experiences, perspectives and they also get to see links to evidence and understand their rights. And they also get to know whether things are being done and that they are not alone in whatever their opinion is.

Telling women posting that this 'is shit' and it is 'tedious' is you attempting to shame others into silence. You could have just scrolled past but you needed to censure other's opinions.

"What do you want me to do about it, exactly?"
Nothing. Because you obviously aren't interested in doing something about it.

However, those reading along can understand how it impacts others and understand that if they have an opportunity to do something about it, then they should. In fact, even if it is just talking about it with friends. It is amazing how much that helps some women to articulate their concerns.

So, 'What do you want me to do about it, exactly?' You just keep doing you and maybe stop trying to censure others who do have concerns.

Well that's nice for you. The statistics show women have good reason to.

You felt alarm when a large burly male went into the ladies’ toilet where your child was.

Congratulations, you are a human mother.