Can being 'gifted' be confused for autism?

[SpinningTops]

My son is 5 and on the waiting list for an autism assessment based on a previous need to routine and big meltdowns!
He seems to have mellowed a lot over the last few months though, he still has his odd ways and speaks a bit like he's a 70 year old man but I wouldn't have pushed for an assessment based on his current behaviour.

I'm wondering if he's just really clever but I realise there might be an overlap. He's definitely got a maths / engineering type of mind.

The thing that's chilled him out is him really getting into chess. He's great at it, beats us all, solves puzzles and anticipates moves. He loves it but not in an obsessive way. It's almost like we've found something to occupy his brain.

I realise chess might go hand in hand with autism but I'm wondering whether I've misjudged things and he's actually just a bit peculiar because he's so bright. He seems to have outgrown the autism traits and now is just a slightly quirky bright boy.

Has anyone been in a similar situation and it so, how did it pan out?

Autistic adults without a learning disability are also more likely to die by suicide, especially women.

Gifted and autism can appear very similar. When my DD was in year 3 at school they got the ed psych out for her because school thought she was autistic. Ed psych said no she's gifted and recommended her moving up a couple of years. School wouldn't do that

I agree. I think it gives some autistic people a massive advantage.

It depends on the other needs.

Both mine have stratospheric IQs, but though my eldest may be able to work (he has gifts in areas that are both unusual, and highly prized) it's unlikely he will ever be independent in living. And my daughter's vulnerability is so enormous, she needs a full time TA, including lunch cover, to keep her safe - and that's in a small, gentle independent setting. She is like a toddler in her faith in whatever people tell her. And her IQ is actually not testable, because she hits the ceiling score on most of the domains. You can't get higher, so they don't know how much higher she could get.

It's complex.

My DD was like this and when she was 5 she had calmed a lot but looking back I’d developed different strategies to help get manage & the daily meltdowns turned into occasional. She is extremely bright and I decided her behaviour was to do with anxiety and I pulled out of CAMHS when her turn came age 6 as I felt she didn’t need it. Unfortunately she had a breakdown at age 12/13 and was assessed as autistic age 14. I would go ahead with the assessment as you don’t have anything to lose.

I've been a teacher for 20 years (and a parent for nearly 12) and I can honestly say I've never met a gifted child who isn't autistic/ADHD. There is no Venn diagram, it's a circle.

That's fascinating! I was always in the gifted and talented class at school and can categorically say that 100% of all my peers were most likely ND. Many signs only manifest later in adulthood. Many were extremely successfully academically but burned out, some also became successful financially but struggled with relationships and personal life, most that I know of suffered MH issues.

The problem with people insisting on the two being separate might just be down to good masking or being less affected by ASD/ADHD traits in some areas of life. I am extremely high masking and nobody would ever guess I could be AuDHD. I could easily "pass" for a NT child who is just gifted (and many people probably still think that as I was one of the few who didn't crash and burn) but looking back I realised that neurodivergency explains almost everything about my life. I always struggled with MH (anxiety, panic disorder, depression) but never to the point of taking medication. I somehow learned to regulate myself within reasonable parameters so it's simply never obvious or noticeable.

@Owmyelbow

An EdPsych can't diagnose autism, they can only advise (they are however able to run dyslexia tests etc.). Autism is diagnosed via a clinical psychologist and SALT (perhaps as part of a team of clinicians).

If teachers are raising the possibility of autism, it's likely that your DD would merit further investigation on this front. Children whose cognitive skills are way beyond that of their peers can quite often struggle socially.

I think you are misunderstanding my post. I didn’t say having a high iq meant you were no longer autistic or that you would face no difficulties as a result of your disability. Having a higher iq allows you the advantages of using that iq to support your needs. The high iq individuals who still require significant support would in all likelihood need even more if they also had lower IQ. The government aren’t demonstrating that iq is irrelevant to this at all.

My 9 year old has just been diagnosed with autism. He’s very bright, very quirky, behaves like an old man and is obsessed with chess.

@User645262

Many adults have learnt, over the course of their lifetime, to handle their significant anxiety/disorganisation. We learn coping mechanisms, and life experience can allay anxiety.

Technology has helped me enormously - I have alarms and reminders for everything!

Depends on the process where you live, here it is any two professionals have to be in agreement, for younger primary school age it is usually paediatrician plus Ed psych.

clinical psychologist and salt don’t have to be involved at all.

No - they won't be confused. The big difference is, that with autism, there is are difficulties with social development. Early on, in young children, this will show up in play.

But you really need to know quite a bit about play development to spot it. Non autistics will usually create 'play scenes' when playing alone - so, for a boy playing with vehicles, a very bright boy would create an extended imaginative story - you might have him picking up passengers, going through a magic barrier and into a fantasy land- the imagination is rich.

With autism - play is more focused on the mechanics of how the wheels move, the technical specifications of the cars, very fact based, not story based.

When playing with others, a non autistic child round about 4 years will be pretty advanced in very complex play - you will see the kids discussing together how it will go, problem solving, comforting upset children, etc etc.

And very bright non autistics - they still play imaginatively. If they are true genius level, you might observe their thinking is ahead of the other kids and, in time, they prefer to play with older kids. But they all play. Imaginative games.

Autistic children don't play as well. They have difficulties fitting in with other kids and they often want to control the play - which causes upset.

Or - they don't do imaginative play - chess is an example of non imaginative play. It is rule-bound which suits an autistic mind.

Autistic minds sometimes prefer non fiction or fantasy world type books.

They like technical facts and figures.

As many boys do like this sort of stuff, it can be quite hard to spot high functioning autism at certain ages. It might be less apparent during the primary years - but be more obvious again at high school.

Typically, high functioning autism during teens might be showing lots of success in maths and sciences, seeming very consciencious but not going out partying, drinking, having romantic relationships (maybe online only)

It's the social development. That is where the big difference is.

I am most certainly not misunderstanding your post.

I didn’t say having a high iq meant you were no longer autistic or that you would face no difficulties as a result of your disability.

I didn’t say you did.

Having a higher iq allows you the advantages of using that iq to support your needs.

This is the view I was challenging. For some DC (who go on to be adults) it is recognised actually they cannot use their IQ to support their needs because they cannot apply their high IQ in the real world. Even the government recognises this.

The high iq individuals who still require significant support would in all likelihood need even more if they also had lower IQ.

This is also rubbish. It isn’t as simple as making such a sweeping generalisation. For some, support needs are not linked to having a low or high IQ.

I think it gives some autistic people a massive advantage.

I agree with this @perfectstorm. As you say, it is more nuanced and complex than a blanket generalisation covering all.

Well we’ll just have to disagree. The idea that having a hi iq doesn’t help you overcome the challenges you face is nonsensical. Does it help to the point you are no longer autistic? I doubt it but the same individual with a LD would face significantly more difficulty adopting any techniques.

Yes, my DN was assessed for autism as a young child due to similar traits. He came back as low likelihood or something similar, but his cognitive function was also checked. He scored middle to low for traditional educational markers of intelligence like maths and English skills, but was like 99% for more general markers like vocabulary, factual knowledge and memory. The psychologist said something like he was frustrated as his body wasn't skilled enough to do what his mind was capable of and he just needed to grow up to enable that.

Now at 13 he shows little to none of the behaviour that caused the original enquiry.

He has channeled his gifts into music; he is amazing and is able to sit down at piano and recreate things he's heard - not just a simple tune I mean, but chunky chords - or just compose something. When he plays it sounds like a film score or something! I mean he's not 100% error free but for improvised pieces I'm continually amazed by what he puts out.

@TomeTome we will have to agree to disagree. Thankfully even the government and DLA law are more enlightened in their view of how some DC with a high IQ can still be as severely mentally impaired as if they had an IQ below 55 than you are.

the same individual with a LD would face significantly more difficulty adopting any techniques

For some, this isn’t true because they cannot apply their high IQ in the real world so having the higher IQ doesn’t actually help.

@EndlessLight
Thankfully even the government and DLA law are more enlightened in their view of how some DC with a high IQ can still be as severely mentally impaired as if they had an IQ below 55 than you are.
and again I didn’t say that those with high iq couldn’t be severely impaired by their disability. Benefits and accommodations provided by the government do not support the position that IQ doesn’t impact the experience of autism.

so having the higher IQ doesn’t actually help

most people recognise it helps enormously.

Ps - just to add to my earlier post, as well as differences with play and socialising, another clue often present is sensory difficulties.

Can be dislike of scratchy clothes and labels
Fussy eater
Non sporty - typically boys especially get popular by being good at football, or another sport involving a ball.

But autistic children often have delays in co ordination due to sensory processing and cannot stand rough and tumble games where there is noise, pushing, lots of visual and auditory processing needed.

I didn’t say that those with high iq couldn’t be severely impaired by their disability.

I didn’t say you did. Severely impaired and severe impairment of intelligence are not the same thing. Although one may fall into both camps.

Benefits and accommodations provided by the government do not support the position that IQ doesn’t impact the experience of autism.

Actually, for HRM under SMI, they do. They recognise someone with a high IQ (or an average or below average IQ but over 55) can still meet the test for having a severe impairment of intelligence if they cannot apply their intelligence to the real world as if they had an IQ below 55. I am surprised you know enough about SMI to say otherwise since on a thread less than 2 weeks ago you said you “don’t know the benefits you are asking about” when the poster was talking about SMI and VUW for HRM.

most people recognise it helps enormously.

Most people that aren’t ignorant recognise for some, which is what I said, it doesn’t.

I think what Tome Tome is saying is that high iq autism is more advantageous than low iq autism. I think what Endless Light is saying is that high iq autism is not an advantage compared to the general population / non autism population. Does that sound about right?

No, that is not what I am saying. For some DC with a high IQ with ASD, their high IQ is not more advantageous than if they had a low IQ (and still had ASD) because they cannot apply their high IQ in the real world. I am not comparing to the general population or those without ASD.

I am almost crying reading this thread. Female, 50 years old, bedbound with a chronic immune illness. Loved primary school, hated secondary school. Didn’t realise that I had learned to “mask” for years to be able to fit in as an adult.

Had never really considered I might have autism. Thank you to everyone for the information you are all sharing here.

Mind blown

@TeaandHobnobs - my 8 year old is a DME child who would love to participate in something like the chess club you mentioned. If possible, could you please also DM the details to me? No pressure, but thanks if you can. 😁

@EndlessLight I don’t know what SMI stands for, so I would imagine that’s what I said. I’m happy to disagree with you. My opinion based on my experience is that IQ does impact in the way I explained.

Thank you @IOSTT for trying to pour oil on troubled waters. I think the best part of MN is hearing different views on things from a variety of posters.

A family-member-by-marriage taught Physics at Oxford. We consider that to be a diagnosis. 😂