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Can being 'gifted' be confused for autism?

129 replies

SpinningTops · 07/09/2024 19:17

My son is 5 and on the waiting list for an autism assessment based on a previous need to routine and big meltdowns!
He seems to have mellowed a lot over the last few months though, he still has his odd ways and speaks a bit like he's a 70 year old man but I wouldn't have pushed for an assessment based on his current behaviour.

I'm wondering if he's just really clever but I realise there might be an overlap. He's definitely got a maths / engineering type of mind.

The thing that's chilled him out is him really getting into chess. He's great at it, beats us all, solves puzzles and anticipates moves. He loves it but not in an obsessive way. It's almost like we've found something to occupy his brain.

I realise chess might go hand in hand with autism but I'm wondering whether I've misjudged things and he's actually just a bit peculiar because he's so bright. He seems to have outgrown the autism traits and now is just a slightly quirky bright boy.

Has anyone been in a similar situation and it so, how did it pan out?

OP posts:
BarkLife · 08/09/2024 06:45

@Cartwrightandson

Interesting how many 'narcissistic' mums are mentioned on that thread. I thought my MIL was textbook Cluster B personality disorder but I've come to realise that she's developed maladaptive coping mechanisms in life due to her own autism.

@LotsOfFinches

MN doesn't work on safari on my phone so I'm having trouble accessing PMs/the website, but I will read and reply as soon as I can!

Nellodee · 08/09/2024 07:02

Both myself and my daughter are/were gifted. I taught myself to read and could read university philosophy text books by age four (without understanding them). She has a cat score placing her in the top 0.1% of the population. She has hyperfocus, some rigidity, and rubs her ankles together when stressed. I have inattentive adhd traits. Neither of us meet any diagnostic criteria. I suspect we’re both neurodiverhent in some way, but realistically, if we are functioning well, is there any point in seeking a label?

Morph22010 · 08/09/2024 07:07

What year is he in at school? He sounds very much like my son at 5 and things statuted to fall about and get bad through year one when things became more formalised at school as opposed to early years where learning is more child led. As he’s become older it’s more obvious he’s autistic and he couldn’t manage in mainstream so is now in an autism school.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

BarkLife · 08/09/2024 07:09

@Nellodee

How old is your DD? Autism diagnosis isn't about the label, it's about the help your daughter might require. At primary, autistic girls tend to go under the radar, but I've seen many ND girls fall apart around Year 9 onwards as things (not the work, I mean social things) become more demanding.

We have undiagnosed students on our SEND register, because they require extra help and support.

Nellodee · 08/09/2024 07:23

She attends the grammar school I teach at and is absolutely thriving, both academically and socially. She maintains friendships from primary school and tends to be the one holding lots of disparate groups together. Yesterday, she organised a cinema trip with three friends, all from different schools. As someone who struggles to maintain friendships over time, I’m a bit in awe of her.

BarkLife · 08/09/2024 07:35

@Nellodee She sounds amazing!

Bubbleswithsqueak · 08/09/2024 07:52

"If your child is highly intelligent and has autism they may appear to "grow out of" autism traits for a few years as they learn observationally what expected behaviour enables them to fit in with their peers (ie "masking"). If this happens they really need you to be on the ball advocating to ensure their additional needs aren't missed because if you decide they are actually fine the chances are that the pressure and stress of masking will gradually grow as the complexity of navigating a neurotypical world grows, and they will have a total breakdown around age 14-16 exploding a bomb at the worst possible time in their education"

Don't know how to do quotes properly, but THIS.
My son was very similar. I knew that he was autistic aged about 18 months. Between about 4yo and 9yo he seemed absolutely fine. Then, as social relationships began to get more complex, it became more noticeable. He was lucky to be diagnosed quickly aged 10. He then relearned how to mask, but burned out aged 15. He was out of school for 2 years and now attends a highly therapeutic special school (whilst working at undergraduate level and beyond, academically).

perfectstorm · 08/09/2024 07:58

Both my kids are autistic, and both are gifted.

My son was in a higher level GCSE group at 12 and so bored he had permission to play on his Switch as long as he could answer any question the teacher randomly lobbed at him, and get it right - which he could without fail. His cognition, even with the disabilities around visual memory etc, is overall 98th centile. He's been watching YouTubes on maths research for years. Especially fascinated by quadratic equations. He was put on the Able, Gifted & Talented register when he was EYFS.

My daughter hits the ceiling scores on most of her testing. She's consistently been tested at the 99.9th centile, unless you factor in a slower processing speed (81st centile) which drops it to 99.8. She turned up at school reading a well-thumbed copy of The Enchanted Wood - she was found in the reading tent at preschool one day. Nobody ever taught her how to read and nobody knows how she learned; we assume CBeebies and Numberblocks. By 8 she was reading Sophie's World and Animal Farm.

Unfortunately, both also have significant struggles in other areas. My son's weren't identified in time, so he has an EOTIS (LA fund education and therapies from home) due to trauma experienced in the school years, and my daughter also has an EHCP. She's academically off the charts, but at ten her emotional understanding is that of a preschooler. She has intense anxiety and needs a lot of reassurance and emotional support.

It's called having a spiky profile, and it's not uncommon in autism. Being able to hyper focus on one specific thing to a level of intensity that allows brilliance to happen is allied to real and significant delays elsewhere. My kids are very literal, hate not knowing what will happen and when, and my daughter especially is enormously vulnerable and naive.

And yes, they both love chess.

My husband and I met at Cambridge, and at this point, we are one of six families of contemporaries with gifted autistic kids. Interestingly, half of the families met their partner there, too, so that's 9 of us - and the other 3 parents are similarly academic. And those are just the people I'm still in touch with with autistic kids, 20 years on, so clearly there are likely to be many more. I think all of us have at least soft traits, and many are actively diagnosable if we ever bothered to be, including my husband and I. Obsessive hyperfocus on areas of intellectual interest are common in both autism, and academic high achievement. You don't need to be autistic to be academically inclined, obviously, but I think it can help. I also think the struggle with executive function inherent in autism is reflected in the trope of the impractical, absent-minded professor.

Your child may be gifted. Your child may be autistic. They may be both.

A diagnosis doesn't tell you anything much though. A really good ed psych does, alongside SLT and OT. Autistic kids are different to typically developing peers in terms of their needs, a lot of the time, and early assessment and allied adjustments can really help. This is especially so for sensory issues, which can be devastating if not properly supported and understood, and also in terms of their getting the right emotional support and reassurance if the social world is challenging.

LikeWeUsedToBe · 08/09/2024 08:03

You could be describing me as a child. I was gifted and loved chess. I was diagnosed autistic as an adult having struggled for years not knowing why everything was so much harder for me and feeling alien and like there was something wrong with me. My advice is still have the assessment because being autistic and not knowing is so damaging to our mental health. If he's not autistic then he won't be diagnosed.

I also have a super impressive IQ. Drive me absolutely mad when people think autistics can't be intelligent!! It also drives me mad that having a high IQ doesn't really give you much advantage when you get sensory overwhelm and social struggles impacting your work life despite having strait A's. I wish I wasn't told how intelligent I was as a child that doesn't really equate to success or the value a person has. Be careful how you speak about it with your son. Once you expect the very best from yourself it's hard when you don't always achieve that. And there are different types of intelligence we can't have high intelligence in every area. My DD is like me very clever and it worries me how it's becoming part of her identity with adults constantly telling her how bright she is, it's not healthy to be told you are better than others so do watch how you phrase things

TomeTome · 08/09/2024 08:06

For someone to be autistic they must fit the criteria which in the uk is icd-11 which includes

  • characteristics result in significant impairment in personal, family, social, educational, occupational or other important areas.

if he isn’t experiencing significant impairment in these areas he wouldn’t be described as autistic.

TomeTome · 08/09/2024 08:11

Drive me absolutely mad when people think autistics can't be intelligent!! It also drives me mad that having a high IQ doesn't really give you much advantage when you get sensory overwhelm and social struggles impacting your work life despite having strait A's.
I couldn’t disagree with this more. IMO people are very aware that autistic people can be very intelligent. Having a high IQ gives you a massive advantage if you are autistic (as it does for the non autistic population) as you have the ability to apply your intelligence to the challenges you face.

Thulpelly · 08/09/2024 08:30

A lot of misinformation in this thread. ‘A touch of autism’ - you’re either autistic or you’re not.
It may present subtly, but won’t be subtle for the person involved.

I’d go ahead with the assessment OP, it’s not that easy to be diagnosed, there’s certain criteria that needs to be met. He won’t be diagnosed with autism if he isn’t autistic.
If he is autistic, he might appreciate having the diagnosis later on and having access to support if needed.

Of course you can be very bright/gifted without being autistic. The meltdowns and rigidity alone wouldn’t mean he was autistic, there would have to be significant social/communication issues (e.g struggling to make friends or not being interested in other children)

He sounds delightful :)

Thulpelly · 08/09/2024 08:32

TomeTome · 08/09/2024 08:11

Drive me absolutely mad when people think autistics can't be intelligent!! It also drives me mad that having a high IQ doesn't really give you much advantage when you get sensory overwhelm and social struggles impacting your work life despite having strait A's.
I couldn’t disagree with this more. IMO people are very aware that autistic people can be very intelligent. Having a high IQ gives you a massive advantage if you are autistic (as it does for the non autistic population) as you have the ability to apply your intelligence to the challenges you face.

High IQ doesn’t automatically equal success and social understanding/navigating society.

Thulpelly · 08/09/2024 08:35

Thulpelly · 08/09/2024 08:30

A lot of misinformation in this thread. ‘A touch of autism’ - you’re either autistic or you’re not.
It may present subtly, but won’t be subtle for the person involved.

I’d go ahead with the assessment OP, it’s not that easy to be diagnosed, there’s certain criteria that needs to be met. He won’t be diagnosed with autism if he isn’t autistic.
If he is autistic, he might appreciate having the diagnosis later on and having access to support if needed.

Of course you can be very bright/gifted without being autistic. The meltdowns and rigidity alone wouldn’t mean he was autistic, there would have to be significant social/communication issues (e.g struggling to make friends or not being interested in other children)

He sounds delightful :)

Just to be clear; By ‘later on’ i mean he could appreciate it later in life. I think you should seek the assessment now.

mids2019 · 08/09/2024 08:37

The 'young sheldon' trope does not help here. There is so much stereotyping with neurodiveregence. My fear is that children may mask their inmate intelligence at school as they may be a school child tendency to label anyone intelligent (say good at maths) as being autisitc. (and kids as we all know can be mean).

mids2019 · 08/09/2024 08:39

Oh by the way it was probably the case Einstein wasn't autistic but was simply a misogynist with a certain set of social views and conduct common at the time.

BarkLife · 08/09/2024 08:50

@mids2019

Einstein didn't speak until he was 4, and then in full sentences. A SALT might suggest (as part of a multi-disciplinary team) that he was autistic.

SpinningTops · 08/09/2024 09:05

TheBossOfMe · 07/09/2024 21:26

@SpinningTops Where do you live? There are amazing county chess teams and training programmes - would be very happy to connect you in if you haven’t already found your local one.

Thanks for this. He's in a nice local club which is all we want at the moment. I've heard it can be quite competitive which I don't think he'd cope with. But thank you 😊

OP posts:
jennylamb1 · 08/09/2024 09:11

Hans Asperger's used to refer to the children he worked with as 'little professors' and I think that it's a good term for how some children with autism present.

SpinningTops · 08/09/2024 09:12

It seems a lot of people have experienced this themselves or with their children and I appreciate the replies.
I was worried by the first few replies that people didn't get what I meant and misunderstood what I was saying.

When he's with friends he does stand out as a little different but he's got a great group of friends who all seem to love maths and puzzles.
He's in year 1 now. I was worried about how he'd cope with the transition but it's been great! So much so that I think the teacher must be thinking 'why is this kid on the waiting list for an autism assessment'.

I guess time will tell and we'll just keep on doing what we're doing.

OP posts:
TomeTome · 08/09/2024 09:31

Thulpelly · 08/09/2024 08:32

High IQ doesn’t automatically equal success and social understanding/navigating society.

Did anyone say it did? What I said was Having a high IQ gives you a massive advantage if you are autistic (as it does for the non autistic population) as you have the ability to apply your intelligence to the challenges you face.

perfectstorm · 08/09/2024 09:35

BarkLife · 08/09/2024 08:50

@mids2019

Einstein didn't speak until he was 4, and then in full sentences. A SALT might suggest (as part of a multi-disciplinary team) that he was autistic.

Gestalt language processor indication in neon, right there.

perfectstorm · 08/09/2024 09:39

TomeTome · 08/09/2024 09:31

Did anyone say it did? What I said was Having a high IQ gives you a massive advantage if you are autistic (as it does for the non autistic population) as you have the ability to apply your intelligence to the challenges you face.

I'm pretty sure life is a lot tougher for autistic people with low IQs than it is for the gifted cohort.

That doesn't mean that life isn't a great deal more challenging for all autistic people. It just means that a hugely gifted autistic person is a lot likelier to be employed, have friends, and possibly a partner than someone who is autistic and has a low IQ.

The problem arises where people expect a gifted autistic person to succeed and thrive as if they were an equivalently gifted non-autistic person. That's often an unreasonable expectation because the demands of a high flying job may be too much alongside the demands of living and working in a world not designed for, or at times compatible with, their neurotype. And the shame and distress an exceptionally able autistic may feel over "wasting their talents" or just feeling that they weren't, after all, good enough can be great.

It's nuanced.

EndlessLight · 08/09/2024 09:43

Having a high IQ gives you a massive advantage if you are autistic (as it does for the non autistic population) as you have the ability to apply your intelligence to the challenges you face.

Even the government recognises this isn’t always true. It is why some DC with a high IQ still meet the criteria for HRM DLA under the SMI criteria because it is recognised some autistic DC with a high IQ cannot apply their intelligence in the real world so are still considered to have a severe impairment of intelligence (along with the other parts of the test for SMI).

BarkLife · 08/09/2024 09:45

@perfectstorm Literally Grin he only wanted to talk to tell everyone about the big ideas he'd been stringing together