Really worried about the possibility of “pay per mile”

[Yorkiepud2614]

I’ve been seeing more and more about this new proposal “pay per mile” that would replace car duty (I think). Which the average household bill somewhere around £450 - £600. Lots of reports that it may come in this October.
Living in the Highlands this would completely cripple us. Do people really think the new government will bring this change in?

Presumably would be relatively simple to tier based on annual mileage at MOT, would just get slightly complicated if a car changed ownership, but then mileage is also recorded on the v5 I think (or could easily be). More expensive than sending out tax reminders at the moment but probably more only marginally so as the process would presumably be automated.

im not sure why anyone would find it ‘crippling’ or decide not to do journeys - I’d guess it would have a maximum cap of say 15,000 miles and anyone doing above that would be paying a similar amount to the normal tiers of car tax at the moment, say £200 or so. But it wouldn’t be possible to do 15,000 and pay £20 like you can now, which is fair enough…

EVs will be taxed from next April, so that takes out the 'EV owners don't pay tax' argument.

Because its a tax on the rural working class who have no choice but to drive.

I also think that like a lot of Labour policies, if they think you have any money, they take it.

You could argue that if you have enough money to drive 60 miles today, then you have enough money to pay some sort of tax on top. Just like they say if you have enough money for private school, you have enough money for tax on top. In both cases, often not true (I’m not someone who will be paying private VAT btw, although I disagree with the policy, and also disagree with the tax per mile policy). But the policies are the same - you are spending money on something, whether that’s petrol or school and they will therefore want a slice of money every time you do so. People should have been much more careful what they voted for. It was difficult as both the main parties are terrible.

can you not understand why it would be crippling for someone who does around 20,000 miles a year so costing £100 a month extra when you are on minimum wage?

I’m pretty sure that the Mayor of London will be introducing it soon. Funnily enough everyone around here says “I didn’t vote fir him” yet he still got in and introduced the ULEZ expansion! (Which he’d previously said he had no intention of).
The part of “London” I live in (which is actually Kent) has poor transport for local travel so I have the choice of drive to work in 15-20 minutes or use public transport which takes between 90 and 120 minutes. Cycling not an option as I have have a health condition which prevents that. I could walk it - takes a bit over an hour and it’s a walk I’ve done with DH but it’s through woodland and parts on narrow roads with no pedestrian pavement or streetlights so impractical / unsafe for someone who has to dress smart and carry stuff to and from work.
When pay per mile IS introduced here then I will seriously consider giving up my job depending on the cost. We are already looking at moving away from “London” (our address is Kent!) in a few years….

It’s incredibly easy (and cheap) to have your car mileage corrected.

By 'corrected' do you mean 'fraudulently falsified'?

The poorest in society can’t afford cars. They are more likely to rely on public transport, as are those who are too old or young to drive.

An extra £600 per year to keep on driving wherever the hell you like is pretty bloody cheap.

That is not a serious snap survey

A serious snap survey would be worded neutrally. She is trying to whip up anti Labour feeling. And I should know - she's my MP.

As for her 'not being right wing' - that's mad. Of course she is! She is a member of the right wing party.

There is a lot of scaremongering right now about government policies that the government have actually said nothing about. They're trying to trick you into hating Labour.

I would support something like this actually but what really needs cutting down is the huge proportion of very short car trips. So maybe something like (if it were feasible, which I'm not sure it is) a big fee for the first mile, a bit less for the five miles or so after that, and then only a small per-mile fee for subsequent distances.

But fat chance Labour are actually going to do anything about excessive car use in reality.

Yes I expect the poster does mean that.

but it’s also a crime

Some of the poorest in society certainly do own cars. Not all of them live in places with public transport.

I think even using car mileage as the gauge, it requires stronger infrastructure for payment and enforcement than they have at the moment. The DVLA already has a huge backlog....

I think the way things are going this is going to be a one term government.

Yes. We in the countryside would love more public transport so we don't have to do this.

Sat nav, ANPR, mobile phone networks. For the huge sums involved they will make it work.

We will end up with a device fixed to our car linked to the above.

That "some calculations show that the average motorist would likely pay 444 more" (love the precision of that 444!) is obvious bullshit and it absolutely devalues anything she says.

Pay per mile (which ICE cars already do) is just a mechanism, which says nothing about what level it would be set at.

Not even that really, because it might or might not vary by type of road.

If she'd taken the made up figures out and said "I'm worried about the potential impact of pay per mile on my rural constituents" then I'd have had some respect for her. But "Labour are planning to tax you an extra 444 according to some bloke on the internet, are you for or against it?" is the action of a troll.

Or as it’s termed
“corrected”.
There’s a whole industry for it which will absolutely bloom. Clocks, dials and dashes get replaced all the time. Mot and service history gets incorrectly inputted. So there are legitimate needs for it.

as well as the fraud aspect

Also in the highlands, currently do a 200mile round trip for my cancer treatment. They can get to fuck if they introduce that, will destroy so many highland areas that are already suffering from depopulation.

First thought - totally unfair to generate income off those living rurally with no other transport options, and then probably use the proceeds to plough into urban infrastructure. Coupled with the potential (devastating) introduction of inheritance tax on farms, it feels like a direct attack on the countryside.

Second thought - this is already what happens with tax on petrol! We're already paying per mile.

It would be very unfair if there were a period where petrol cars pay both tax on petrol and also tax per mile, especially for those of us who can't just afford to "go electric".

... people need to pay what it costs to keep roads in good repair

That might make sense if what people paid was actually used for the stated purpose, but like much of the rest it's far more likely to be spent on vanity projects instead

It might be more acceptable if people could see that funding for core responsibilities was being managed properly, but then if that was the case extra charges probably wouldn't be needed in the first place

its certainly cheaper where I am to run a car than use public transport - which only takes you to the one local town. And I’m commuter belt for London.

Another issue with pay per mile is that it could actually INCREASE congestion. Why would I pay the extra mileage to around the ring road when I could just allow extra time a go the shorter distance straight through the town centre?

It will certainly ease congestion on the M25 - it will be cheaper to go through London than all those wasted miles around the outside!