Milk allergy death- should the book be thrown at the staff involved?

[mids2019]

....or if you are minimum wage staff member working in a stressed environment without English as a first language there should be leniency. Doctors are paid for life and death decisions but are Costa staff?

“Ms Akter then told the court she had repeated Ms Duyile's request for the jug to be washed and pointed out that hot chocolate is made from milk.”

Quote from the sky article.

My son has a non ige allergy. There has been a few slip ups over years but the worst he gets is eczema or loose bowels. If he had an ige allergy I would avoid eating food/drink prepared by others. We once went to taco bell, used their allergen filter to see what he could have, told staff member and it still came out with cheese in!

The mum should have at least checked the ingredients list. But she will suffer for the rest of her life

I think I read that this was a franchise, but in Costa, if someone mentions an allergy, the most senior person available deals with it, uses the book, cleans equipment etc. There's a very clear protocol which is checked pretty regularly. And when my son worked there, they paid above minimum wage.

I don't think any one person is to blame, it's just a tragic mistake but not at all uncommon or unheard of.

The server should have shown the book. She may not have because she forgot, because most people don't want to see it, because she assumed it wasn't a serious allergy as she thought they were ordering something with some milk in it...the list goes on. Add in a second language and lots of room for error. People's orders get messed up all the time in eateries. That's expected to a point.

The customers - they thought they ordered a safe drink. BUT who has never been served the wrong thing in a coffee shop? Unless you sit there and watch them make it at every step, you cannot assume it's safe. Even if they make it correctly, what if they mix up the cups on the side and hand you the wrong one? Or cross contamination? There are so many risks in ordering at a restaurant or cafe that you are accepting a level of risk by not preparing your own. I understand this is extremely limiting and frustrating but people with allergies have the ultimate responsibility to safeguard themselves. And that should include having an epipen at all times.

I have a severe life threatening allergy which is both contact and airborne if my immune system is down . I carry Epi-pens.

it does my head in that companies say ‘ may contain…’ / ‘ can’t guarantee’ about literally EVERYTHING to cover themselves- I’m talking fresh fruit and veg as well as the more obvious risks. I find I have to take daily risks or my only actually safe option would be to go off grid and grow all my own food. I wish they would just be honest about the risk so you could actually make an informed choice.

Agreed. I think Marks and Spencer think anyone with a nut allergy should be able to survive on fresh air.

DH did tell me about an article he read - somewhere (the US?) tightening the regs around may contain warnings so that manufacturers couldn't use them to cover their arses. But all that meant was that the manufacturers just added nuts to the recipes so they were now contains rather than may contains. The manufacturers decided the lost sales from those with allergies was worth it next to the possibility of litigation if things went wrong. So legislation designed to ensure those with allergies had more options had the opposite effect.

I do think that are circs where front line staff can be culpable. For example, not passing on allergy info to the kitchen. I have am allergy and it's notable in the last 12 months or so, my food will come with a flag or marker, so I know that the message had got to the kitchen and they have acted on it.
In a coffee shop like Costa? I don't think it's fair tbh.

You don't even take your severelly-allergic-to-dairy daughter inside a place where dairy milk is used for 95% of their beverages, let alone putting her life at risk by trusting a barely-minimum-wage employee to guarantee there isn't a molecule of milk in the drink she ordered.

It's a tragedy, but sadly an easily preventable one.

That’s awful!

i suppose I should be grateful water is safe 😂

Probably not in Marks and Spencer 🤣

I think lots of people are missing the point here.

The problem isn't whether the hot chocolate powder did or did not contain milk traces.

The problem is that the barista made the hot chocolate WITH DAIRY MILK, not soya milk, having just been informed about the dairy allergy. She washed the jug and then poured dairy milk into it and made the drink with that. For someone she had been told - and clearly understood - was allergic to milk! That was really a very stupid thing to do if she had been given any training around allergies at all?

There was a complete lack of training and/or understanding here.
I mean, seriously, it was completely negligent!!!

You don't need to have suffered anaphylaxis to be prescribed epi-pens. DS was prescribed them as a pre-schooler after one nasty allergic reaction (luckily he did puke it all over the back car seat which minimised things).
Not long after he had am allergy clinic appointment and the skin prick tests confirmed his allergies and need to always carry an epi-pen. He has never forgotten them or needed them so far. He is incredibly careful about food. We'll never eat at at many restaurants and will never have a takeaway.

Brilliant advice again, thanks.

This thread has been good in terms of spreading awareness and correcting some misinformation.

I must say I am surprised not to have received this information from a GP or consultant. Simply given the pens.

From Heaalth and Safey Executive website these are the basic rules: -

• can I get rid of the hazard altogether?
• if not, how can I control the risks so that harm is unlikely?

Item 1 - The mother should have not gone anywhere near a coffee shop that uses dairy products, or just drink water from a bottle, was a milk based choclate drink essential at that time?

The server made the drink with dairy milk, not with soya milk.

Costa shouldn't have been blasé about it though, they should have assumed a potentially fatal allergy.
I think this is at the route of a lot of mistaken exposure to allergens in the food industry. Their are dietary preferences, intolerances and allergies and many people don't take the allergies seriously enough. I wonder if the Costa training on allergens says anywhere, "the person you serve might die if you get this wrong so pay attention and triple check with unambiguous language if you're unsure". If the barista had said. "are you sure you want COWS milk in this with a milk allergy," the tragedy would have been avoided. Similar if the mum had been clearer and checked. Having people who make these requests but it doesn't matter so much and mistakes that don't have any real impact on the barista/cook lead to complacency. If the child hadn't had a reaction for a while and they regularly ordered at their local Costa who were very proactive about allergies then the mum could be rushed and feeling a bit complacent too. I don't have a child with allergies, I know those that do and adults with allergies and eating out is a nightmare, but sometimes you just want to do normal things and people shouldn't be crucified for that. It's easy to say how you would behave with your child when you actually have no idea what it's like. .

I think more than anything this tragedy shows that everyone needs to take allergies more seriously. No one is harmed by making sure. At least one person said they didn't know dairy allergies can kill. Everyone should know that you can be allergic to any substance, be it one that's eaten/inhaled/touched and that there is always a possibility that an allergy can be fatal. Few people seem to know allergies can appear at any stage in life or that they can worsen either over time or suddenly. Societies attitude to allergies is very blasé, I think ultimately that's the problem here.

There's specific criteria, possibly varies by allergen as well. DD has epipens after one non-anaphylactic reaction to peanuts, but that's because she also has a history of viral wheeze. I'm pretty sure she wouldn't have the epipens without the viral wheeze.

Agree @EliflurtleAndTheInfiniteMadness . One of the baristas in our local Nero asks everyone who orders a soy or almond based drink if it's allergy or preference, I think that's good practice that should be widely adopted.

This minimum wage coffee shop employee had an interpreter for the inquest. She had this job for only 8 months.

Yea it was Costas responsibility to train her correctly and I am sure they did tell her the procedure at some point but clearly she did not grasp the seriousness. Plus 99% of the time that people ask for non dairy milk it's just a preference not a life or death scenario. I've asked for a coconut milk latte myself just because I like them and have no allergies at all.

Has anyone else ever seen the allergy book come out when ordering in a Costa? I probably go to Costa a few times a week and have never ever seen this.

If it was my child who had such a serious allergy then no I would not place so much trust in a minimum wage employee at a high street chain coffee shop. Its not that I would never take my child out but I would risk assess this as a high risk situation and assure myself that I had made it safe not rely on someone unlikely to be reliable
Eg I think I would have been watching her make the drinks and spotted her using the incorrect milk.

It's a horrible tragedy but I hope that it's Costa as an organisation and not this poor minimum wage employee who get any blame that is apportioned. I get paid to make life or death decisions in my line of work but the same level of care should not be expected of a person behind a coffee shop counter.

People with severe allergies carry an epipen with them. Regardless of mistakes from
the server, cross contamination can happen even when being extra careful.
Where was her epipen?
Was she not aware that her allergy severe? Did she think it was an intolerance hence no epipen was prescribed?
Why did she refuse the dentist’s epipen?
and why was antihistamines her first port of call?

So does that mean you'd also never go out with your work colleagues - for example you'd never go to the Christmas meal? Or you'd never go to a wedding, or a birthday meal in a restaurant, or never eat out on holiday, or before going to watch a show, or on a date etc etc... It's not easy to just "never eat out".

I just would really struggle to have faith in the person taking the order. Countless times I've received food items that are not what I requested (eg dressing on the side, no anchovies, extra cheese and so on).

Obviously none of this matters in the slightest but I just wouldn't be confident that a person in a busy coffee shop has fully understood and acted on the gravity of the allergy warning.

My best friend has a severe nut allergy and as a result Indian, Thai and other restaurants which feature nuts are a no go. She's just not willing to risk it.

To all the people saying they wouldn't trust someone on low wages with the responsibility of serving someone with allergies - presumably you've never left your child in day care? You do realise you are trusting your child into the hands of (gasp) minimum wage staff? If they made an error that led to your child's death you would - rightly - hold them responsible. The fact the barista is low paid is neither here nor there. If she didn't do her job properly she is in the wrong, no matter what she gets paid.

If the barista had said. "are you sure you want COWS milk in this with a milk allergy," the tragedy would have been avoided.

Yes. But there might still have been a reaction due to cross contamination. Just a molecule of milk getting on the lip of the cup for e.g
With peanut allergy just someone opening a bag of peanuts can trigger someone. For whatever reason the daughter was more reactive that day. Neither of them was to know. The environment wasn't strictly controlled.

100% agree allergies are not taken seriously enough by the general public. Especially if it's an allergy where many people experience a reaction that is milder, but a relative few have serious life threatening reactions. Take dog or cat allergy for e.g. Many people have a reaction, but not enough to kill them suddenly. Others get a serious asthma attack or something (me) but a rare few get the entire throat tightening, can't breathe face swelling, dizziness and collapse.

The amount of cars and dogs on public transport and in restaurants no one really gives a fig about Sandra who is in the 0.001 percent.

In practice, the fact that these are jobs that pay badly, with high turnover, in a hospitality sector that has a shortage of staff generally and often can't be picky does mean it's both here and there. I understand the argument you're making, in principle. In reality, some of the expectations being set out in this thread are not realistic to meet, and any increase in individual employees being held responsible may lead to businesses simply not being staffed. Unless we're willing to pay a lot more perhaps.

The childcare sector is also one that has significant recruitment problems too, fwiw.