Milk allergy death- should the book be thrown at the staff involved?

[mids2019]

....or if you are minimum wage staff member working in a stressed environment without English as a first language there should be leniency. Doctors are paid for life and death decisions but are Costa staff?

@DysonSphere

I can only imagine the crushing guilt and feeling of responsibility this mother is feeling now and will feel forever more. Of course she is feeling responsible, as would any mother in the same situation.

That doesn't remove responsibility from the server and from Costa too. There can be more than one person responsibile.

Places like cafés need to abide by certain rules. They can't serve gone off food, nor poisonous food, just like they shouldn't serve allergens when an allergen free dish/drink is requested.

I don't think jail is necessarily appropriate, I think we need better systems in place and this is (yet another) wake up call.

EpiPens are still effective for some time after the expiry date, as long as the solution is still clear. So depending on how long you've had them you might be ok. There is a window on the side where you can check. If it looks milky it needs to be discarded. Sounds like you need to go back to your Allergy Clinic or GP for a review though. It must be hard when you have unidentified triggers. I remember when my DS was little there seemed to be new things cropping up every few weeks but fortunately no new discoveries for over a decade now and it's much easier once you know. Hope you get sorted out soon.
Oh, something else you might want to consider once you have new Epipens is practising with the expired ones on an orange. They are simple to use but it's still easy to make a mistake when you're stressed so it's good to practice. Most common mistake people make is to jab the needle in and pull it straight out rather than waiting the necessary 3 seconds for it to deliver the medication. And someone I know once accidentally jabbed themselves in the thumb instead of the allergy sufferer in the leg. Fortunately they did have another one with them.
I find it ironic that as a First Aider at our sports club I need to renew my certificate every 3 years and that includes refresher training on all 3 brands of auto injector but as the parent of a child with multiple allergies and thus far more likely to actually need to use one I had one 15 minute training session about 15 years ago on one brand and that's me considered trained for life. If you are good at allergen avoidance you might carry adrenaline for years, decades even, without ever needing it but then one day out of the blue you could have to recall the information in an emergency so I definitely think it's worth practising.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanchi/article/PIIS2352-4642(18)30344-4/fulltext

Factory packaged food and drink made by staff on minimum wage, ever worked on a line in a food or drink factory?

Costa hot chocolate powder doesn’t contain milk.

Sadly, I agree with this. People are so incompetent (not in this case), there's no way I'd trust someone if I had a severe allergy. But especially at a fast food type place, perhaps at a restaurant but even then people make mistakes

So you would only eat food you had grown yourself?

I don't agree with the interpreter thing at a trial being an issue. I know two languages, but no way would I go on trial if it was in the country of the other language (even though I am fluent and it's my parents native language), too risky! I'd only ever do it in my first language.

I read that the girl started to react they were in the dentist’s waiting room and the mother took her straight to the pharmacy for an epipen. I didn’t read anything about the dentist having offered an epipen.

Well as others have said, taking someone to a place where 90% of the product is milk based is risky. We all have to decide how much risk we are willing to take 🤷‍♀️ If I had a severe milk allergy, then no I wouldn't get a drink from a shop that will be selling mostly milk. I'm lucky though as I don't have any allergies so not speaking from personal experience

They literally just have to show them a book not make any diagnosis or decisions

then it’s up to the customer to assess the situation and make an informed choice

Virtually all pre-made food contains milk, including bread, toiletries, cooking sauces, meat products, seasoning mixes etc. So that means a supermarket wouldn’t be a safe place as the majority of their products contain milk.

That sounds very difficult to manage, it's tragic for everyone involved

Life threatening allergies make things difficult. A friends child has a shellfish allergy. This invokes checking every product and impacts where they can eat out as well. When this child came round to my house I checked the shop bought food brands beforehand. We only had this foid on that day. We don’t ever have shellfish but it can be in supermarket foods. It was a big trust for the mother. She checked the environment and made sure everything was ok for her child.

Yes, but there quality control and stricter measures so it's much more controlled than someone potentially making a mistake and not understanding. Starbucks can't ever spell my name correct on the cup, so there's no way I'd trust them with my life!

We have very good allergy labelling laws for pre packaged food. You just ge5 used to checking labels constantly.

People have said multiple times that the powder doesn’t contain milk. Have you read the thread?

Agree with this. I work with someone who reckons she’s allergic to a big long list of food, none of them the common allergens. And makes a big show of telling the waiting staff. I was out with her recently and the waitress came back and said the chef wants to know how serious the allergies are. Colleague tells her very serious and that she could die (it’s all bollocks btw). So waitress says that the chef won’t serve her anything as he can’t guarantee no cross contamination. Colleague back pedals because she’s desperate for food and says she will sign a disclaimer and eventually they serve her.

I'm not clear from the article whether the drink was made with soya milk or not?

A cafe I've worked in has separate jugs for soya and almond milk, and also a separate steamer/frother nozzle to use. Is it possible the wrong milk was used?

The dentist did offer her an epipen but she said she was going to the chemist for an antihistamine.
However, at that point the reaction wasn't that bad so no one was panicking, I think she deteriorated quickly once she got to the chemist.

The pharmacist only had the one epipen because there's a shortage and said he definitely would have used the epipen from the dentist if he'd known there was one.

https://www.theglutenfreeblogger.com/costa-coffee-gluten-free/

This article was v. interesting from the point of view of someone needing gluten free - it says some Costa staff don't use a separate steamer nozzle..

Think the problem is they didn’t show the allergy information

so the customer made an assumption rather than an informed choice

As a parent of an allergy kid it’s the big chains i trust more because they have the allergy books and the processes. I can’t tell you how many times a waiting staff member has told me that there def is no (allergen) in x,y,z and looked at me like crazy when I’ve asked to see the packaging or for them to confirm with the kitchen and they’ve come back and it actually does contain it. But if I had gone on their word, we would have had a problem. This is not the UK so I hope it’s different there but the fact that staff dismiss allergies so easily in a ‘yer that’s not in it’ without actually knowing (and despite being told the allergy is serious) tells me they haven’t been trained in the seriousness of allergies.

It also means avoiding Worcestershire sauce (not many people realise this)