Milk allergy death- should the book be thrown at the staff involved?

[mids2019]

....or if you are minimum wage staff member working in a stressed environment without English as a first language there should be leniency. Doctors are paid for life and death decisions but are Costa staff?

Hi

My 7 year old daughter has a severe dairy allergy and honestly, I’m shocked and disgusted at some of the replies here stating that people with allergies basically shouldn’t have the right to eat food/drink outside of their home.

Whilst I would agree that I would avoid coffee shops with my daughter due to the risk of cross contamination being too high, there are other places we occasionally eat out at so that we can feel like a “normal” family for just a couple of hours. People without children with allergies really have no idea how exhausting and time consuming it is taking packed lunches everywhere, having to deny your child an ice cream/ice lolly on a day out, having to be careful what you eat around your child so that they don’t feel left out, not taking holidays abroad because it’s just not worth the stress. Etc etc. I presume the mother of this girl just wanted her teenage daughter to have normal experiences just like other girls her age and tragically ended up paying her life for it. I also disagree that the blame shouldn’t fall on the staff. Why not? Why is Costa not providing adequate training to their staff on dealing with severe allergies? The system really needs to change because at the moment these companies don’t seem to have any sanctions imposed on them when this happens.

The server is clearly negligent and should be held responsible to some degree. Who hears dairy allergy and doesn't think oh, maybe I shouldn't make this with dairy. It's baffling.

The mum's reaction is also baffling but allergies can go from mild to severe with one reaction, so perhaps this was how they'd dealt with previous recations and it had been fine.

Posters saying that people with allergies shouldn't eat out, are wrong.
Food places take food hygiene very seriously because they don't want anyone to get food poisoning. They rarely take the same care with allergies but the outcomes can be the same (making people very sick, occasionally killing someone). Food poisoning can affect anyone which is why it's taken more seriously. But most food poisoning deaths are in immune compromised people, should they just never eat out?

If a pregnant woman asked for pasteurised mayonnaise instead of the homemade mayo, but the kitchen used the homemade and she got salmonella and it harmed the baby, would you be saying pregnant women shouldn't eat out as they know the risks? No.

I work on a hot food/ sandwich counter and the amount of customers who don't understand allergies is shocking. Served a lady who didn't want butter on her sandwich as she said she was allergic to dairy. She then asked for cheese on her sandwich, I said cheese has dairy in it. She's replied don't be rude I'm not stupid cheese is ok!

She probably does know what's ok for her. Pele with lactose intolerance (rather than a milk allergy) can often tolerate some milk products but not others.

That seems to be where the confusion is?

Should the mother have clarified again/asked someone else?

What use is an allergen book if the wrong milk is used?

Should there not be a separate area & equipment?

I get what you’re saying but as a mum of a child with both nut, milk and sesame allergies. It’s 99% easier to avoid nuts and sesame than it is milk. Milk is just everywhere and the only alternative is to never eat anything outside of the home which is just not fair on a child. You just have to make careful judgement and make sure your emergency medication is available at all times.

She shouldn’t walk around saying she’s allergic then, she’s obviously intolerant there’s a difference. These people are part of the problem making untrained staff think that milk allergies can’t be life threatening.

As the mother of an allergic child also, this is what I wanted to say but I couldn’t think of the words. Eloquently written!
I think sadly it does sound like maybe this mother and daughter had fallen through the net in terms of their allergy follow ups and keeping on top of training etc.

Well she may have an allergy, I'm just not familiar with the milk ladder to know where butter vs cheese lie.

Butter is undefined on the milk ladder as some can be quite low if they're pure butter, but others have added cream to make them softer or other milk additives if it's spread rather than butter, which is higher on the ladder than cheese.

I am saddened that people are blaming the mother. I understand why she would expect a large chain like Costa to be strict on managing allergies. This wasn’t a case of mild cross contamination, the wrong milk was used entirely. I am sure Hannah’s mum is feeling guilt and all sorts of horrific emotions so no need to lay it on thick.
I would not lay the blame at the hands of the poor barista who, I’m sure, feels terrible. Costa, overall, need a different approach to reduce the risks of mistakes like this happening. I am aware you cannot remove human error but this was preventable.

completely agree @YOYOK

It does happen I bring my own food to be sure. Or skip a meal.

I disagree.

The content of lactose in cheese is almost non-existent compared to butter. Some with lactose intolerance can handle eating cheese but not butter.

Do you carry an epipen when you go out?
if you are out and happen to forget your epipen do you continue to purchase food and take the risk?
would you refuse an epipen injection if you think your daughter is having a reaction and don’t happen to carrying a epipen with you?

If there is a risk of cross contamination then the extreme option is for every coffee and other shops should have 2 drink and food preparation areas one to deal with allergies. The reality is that this is an unreasonable cost/adjustment to place on every shop for a few people a day. Is it that jugs,cups etc just being washed out sufficient in all instances to absolutely prevent incidents like this, I have my doubts., are there any food safety/hygiene experts on here to advise?

If as it sounds the barista used the wrong milk it’s human error. Sadly with tragic consequences but it happens.

I hold Costa more culpable than the individual. They need to look at their systems such as having different coloured cups for cows milk drinks vs alternative milk drinks.

@VaccineSticker

i don't need a lecture on what people with allergies do, thank you.

who knows the answer to any of those questions and sadly the girl won't ever be able to tell us, maybe the mum will?

cross contamination shouldn't happen with milk in that situation. It's not airborne like other things.

BESIDES it wasn't a cross contamination issue. It was a used cows milk, not soya issue. Unforgivable.

@EI12 but in that case her dad injected her twice with epi pens

@VaccineSticker

are you a barista?

ehy are you so determined to blame the child/her mother??

the drinks were made with cows milk. That's down to the barista. (& Costa)

very sad. I get the impression her past experiences might have been treatable with anti histamine but this was not.

All allergen training I've done includes the information that allergies can be unpredictable and someone who's previously only experienced mild symptoms can suddenly experience severe symptoms from the same exposure level.

It's also a very basic requirement to inform someone who's disclosed an allergy to an ingredient that what they've ordered contains the allergen. Isn't that what is being alleged with this tragic case that the allergen was disclosed but was given anyway? And the server at fault for this? (It's not quite as clear cut as that imo because there does seem to be unclear communication on both sides from what has been reported).

To disclose an allergy and then get bent out of shape when the person preparing your food does what they're required to do and informs you that what you've ordered contains the allergen is ridiculous and looking to cause an issue for the sake of it.

I've had several conversations like this and it's unnecessarily combative to behave like that, you might be able to tolerate the bit of lactose in cheese, but not butter and that's fine if you're going to accept the responsibility for that, but don't get shitty with people when they're responsible for acting on the allergen information you've given them and then do that.

The customer was unnecessarily rude @Maverickess but @ilovepixie said they didn't understand allergies which is unlikely.

Staff can be poor in their knowledge too - I've had a real battle to order Nutella for a DC with a peanut allergy.

True, but It's up to the individual to handle how much lactose is acceptable.
I don't read anyone trying to place responsibility for cheese or butter on staff. If you asked for cheese to be server it's ones own responsibility. Of course.