Time For The Army?

[RisingSunn]

I’ve just seen footage of rioters setting fire to the Holiday Inn in Rotherham and actually running inside.

What are they planning to do - beat or kill every migrant family?

Its just awful. Is time for the Army to be brought in?

I was wondering too

They do. Public order management is something that the forces are trained in, and equipped for. Keeping the natives in line is something the British Army has plenty of experience in.

And of course I mean everyone who is affected, but I feel really upset after speaking to the people I know. Some of whom don’t feel safe to go into our workplace.

Of course there’s no need, or justification, for the military on the streets. FFS.

The police can deal with this. I’d be very surprised if this violence continues after today.

The 2011 riots were worse than this.

But since Starmer’s been mentioned, I am struck by how utterly shit he is as a speaker. For a barrister, he has no presence and no gravitas.

They'd backfill civilian police so that they could be released and support their colleagues. Last time it was guarding nuclear sites etc so that these police personnel could support their colleagues at the scene. Perhaps logistics support 'behind the scenes' too, it would take an absolutely unprecedented escalation way way beyond this to have military personnel on the streets.

These plans are all available in public documents should people wish to read them instead of just listen to random people online.

@GradGirl

I think it’s time for the army to be on standby to back up the police. I appreciate that they don’t have the same training and this isn’t their mission but what is the answer when the police are losing control?

Well the police had better keep control because if they cannot with their specialist training and their kit it leaves the military (and there aren’t that many of them) with very few options for restoring Law and Order short of the use of lethal force.

Care to draft prospective Rules of Engagement for the military or would you want to be in the position of the Home Secretary or PM if they had to do so?

It’s not something I want to even begin to contemplate.

Yes, let’s declare Martial law too while we are it

I hardly think a group of young men and women who are committed to a life of service putting their life on the line in the name of their country are going pleased being sent to deal with drunk middle aged men crying out ‘England til I die’

Those committing criminal acts should be arrested by the police. This is a police matter.

I've lived in London for 27 years and the police handled the 2011 riots just fine. They called in help from as far away as Wales and Merseyside. (Was a bit weird hearing Scouse accents in the West End). It took time but it calmed down eventually.

@Kebarbra

These plans are all available in public documents should people wish to read them instead of just listen to random people online.

Thanks for your reply to my post, I’m ex-mil and get the gist….I’m not sure some here do though…

Of course not all plans are in the public domain and subject to change

I was of the view that the police were handling it too. But when I saw the lit bin thrown through the hotel window, it felt like it took a more sinister turn. The police just didn’t have the backing to prevent this. (From the footage I’ve seen anyway).

I’m also concerned about the targeted groups taking up weapons to defend themselves which would escalate things even further. (I’ve already started to see this happen.)

So no, for the poster up-thread I don’t think I’m scaremongering.

Why is Starmer getting the blame? He's been in the job for 5 weeks, it's like the previous 14 years have evaporated!

Some local schools had pigs heads left on their doorsteps recently.
How does all this violence and looting help the families of those little girls or protect anyone?

I feel thoroughly ashamed to be British.

To answer the OP point, I'm not sure we need the army. I am sure the police will call on whatever is needed to stop these idiots.

These are not white working class men please don't insult the large majority of men! These are the underclass of society who I agree deserve the full force of the armed forces to round them up.....forever preferably!! Maybe Starmer could be brave and legalise the water cannons ASAP.

Care to draft prospective Rules of Engagement for the military or would you want to be in the position of the Home Secretary or PM if they had to do so?

I’m sure that the expertise exists within the depts that matter to do just that.

As opposed to him being a disgraceful race baiter as shown on record in the Scottish Parliament?

There are plenty of undesirable high profile political figures whose lead I’d be ashamed to follow as would any fair minded person.

I don’t think Starmer’s to blame at all. His government hasn’t had any time to do anything very much, good or bad.

I’m just surprised to see him make important statements to the country in a manner that’s like John Major crossed with Professor Stanley Unwin.

That is all well and good. But when you have people’s cars being stopped and smashed (dependant on skin colour).

It causes extreme concern and we the public are well within our rights to discuss our worries, concerns and views.

You honestly don’t think rules around Millitary Aid to the Civil Authorities exist? Did the past 50 years of Northern Ireland history pass you by? I mean, we’ve used the SAS to bust prison riots in the past…

It’ll rain soon and they’ll all get bored

Every single one of those right wing people need arresting. Bring the army in and come down like a tonne of bricks. Singing along to racist chants- charger with a hate crime. Huge fines for every one involved, remove their benefits until this is paid back if on any kind of benefit. Make their life absolutely miserable.

I don't think the optics would look good for Starmer to bring the army in this soon in his tenure and I imagine that will guide his thinking.

I’d be very surprised if this violence continues after today.

That’s his test ie whether or not it ends after this weekend, it’ll get tricky if he’s still doing the same press conferences in a few weeks’ time

You responded to a partial quote of mine a quote so if I may:

I’m well aware MACA etc exists..but it’s one thing using MACA to provide aid to civvies when the water is off, or use MACA to allow “them” to quell a riot in a confined space away from public gaze, but it’s quite another to put troops out on the streets of the Uk mainland, directly in the face of crowds to “sort people out”…something a few posters seem keen on (hope they are planning to join up).

Can’t see it myself, but never say never,

I posted many, many times at the time of the 2011 riots about the difference between MACP (military aid to civilian powers, in this case the police - acronym for this may have changed now)

The police are very stretched. Violence is happening in many places, the thin blue line is very stretched. Military assistance was not required in 2011. It may or may not be a good idea now - but the decision will be taken by police chiefs and the Home Office. There may be earlier working level meetings about what the roles would be, but they would not be activated without the Home Sec's say-so.

The obvious task would be manning cordons, or protecting buildings. If you were short of police to deal with other incidents, would you want to deploy say 18 coppers on that, when you could instead deploy 2 plus 16 military personnel under their direction?

@mpsw

The obvious task would be manning cordons, or protecting buildings.

From a political POV if nothing else that is something that would make sense.

How do you protect all the buildings which are possible targets?