Why are majority of the riots in northern towns?

[PhoebeMcPeePee]

DH & I were watching the riots on the news this morning like most people absolutely horrified.

He's from one of the northern towns affected although we live in the south and started discussing why these riots now (and historically) tend to be more focused on northern towns but didn't really come up with any one thing. Any thoughts on this?

Now they have broken into an immigrant hotel in Rotherham. Xxxx nazi scum no excuse for any of this at all. Not in my name and I live up north

This may well be true. I'm looking forward to Labour putting asylum seekers in hotels close to where they live.

Rich areas are much more able to meet the demands. My parents live in much more deprived area than I do. Almost impossible to get a gp appointment and roads more pothole than anything else. Their surgery is like a revolving door for doctors and my Dad recently told there is no consultant for an operation he needs in the local hospital because they can't recruit.

Objectively - and for the refugees themselves - it would be far better for them to be housed in rich areas welcoming to them.

These are the areas where mass immigration has most affected communities, and they’ve had no say about it. At all. Worse, they’ve been labelled and judged for wanting a say.

there are places in Leeds, manchester, Liverpool and beyond that are essentially segregated ghettos.

I despise the framing of normal working class people whose communities have changed beyond recognition as racists.

Actually if you want that debate fine I live in one town but if you go lobbing bricks attack black people do nazi salutes then yes you are. Interesting on my local face book groups there are so many racist types it's just so many don't want to admit that they are.

I did call them racists. Loads. If you think I'm patronising that's on you, I can say how I feel and discuss the bigger picture than just racism.
I'm also working class, loads of decent people are. But loads are very angry right now and if it was just plain racism they'd not be burning down places that hold value to their communities, they'd just target mosques and synagogues.
If we don't discuss the reasons behind why the riots are happening and just give one blanket reason then we're doing everyone injustice.
The images of Liverpool mosque Imam hugging a rioter and being hugged back shows that yes racism, but scratch that surface and there is more bubbling.
And it's disingenuous of me just because I'm working class to pretend the people I've grown with, was raised by, aren't a problem just because it makes me uncomfortable.

Everything was cheaper? You were on holiday. Was council tax cheaper? (It’s generally higher in poorer areas) Was the big food shop at Tesco cheaper? (No, they’re the same the country over). It doesn’t matter if pubs and restaurants are cheaper if you’re too poor to visit them more than once in a blue moon.

It makes a difference to cost of living overall, and I said I realise there's inequity and that's a reason for the discontent.

I despise the framing of normal working class people whose communities have changed beyond recognition as racists

Yes, this. It's a bit hypocritical too to be willing to just write off one entire demographic based on belonging to a particular group.

Those individuals committing criminal damage are criminals, labelling their communities as racist is the same as labelling all Muslims as terrorists off the back of the actions of Islamic terrorists. Neither is true, but repeating the generalisations hurts everyone.

And I include in this 'all reform voters / candidates are racist'. My reform candidate (who I didn't vote for) is black - the only BAME person on a list of 7 or 8. It's a bit racist to call a black man racist for holding his own political opinions imo.

So Leisure activities? What about car tax, council tax, bread, milk, school dinners, gas, electricity. I'm not trying to turn this into a North/ South divide thread but I think the things you have mentioned in your post just highlights that people in the South generally and through no fault of their own just don't understand.

Worth noting as well that utilities charges are no different and as it is generally colder up north, heating bills are higher.

The north has suffered since the heavy engineering and mines closed. They have lost opportunities for careers. They have low paid jobs but few chances to prosper.
Ship-building, steel works, fishing with deep-sea trawlers. Those towns are shadows of their former selves.
There is a plan to open a mine near Whitehaven for coal that is needed to produce steel. That would have trained engineers, chemists and computer experts. Real careers. It will be cancelled and the politicians say there are jobs in Tourism. Yes there are mostly at the minimum wage.

Exactly my point. They’re all leisure activities which are beyond many of these type of people.

A single 40 minute train journey to Crewe from Liverpool £17.15. It depends on the route. It’s not universally cheap in the ‘north’.

And with mostly minimum wage jobs we need universal credit to top up wages and then we get people revelling in delight to tell us we're unemployed and holding back the country etc

I live in a Northern Mill town and lack of integration from all communities is an issue. There isn't an issue amongst Middle class people IME as the Professional people from all communities seem to mix pretty well but the working class people do seem to stick to their own communities. I live in a small cul de sac of houses and 2 families as Muslim and my DC have Muslim and Hindu friends at their Private school BUT there are streets where there are no white people living in the less salubrious parts of town. One of my Muslim neighbours told me that once they started to do well in their careers they moved out of the area they grew up in and that "white" areas like ours are aspirational
DD was referred to a GP in a different area last month and when we arrived and walked in the Receptionist knew who we were before she gave her name, we wondered why but then noticed that we were the only white people there. There are no "no go" areas here though and I never feel uncomfortable in any part fo my town - the only shouting sexual innuendo at Teen DD occured outside Wetherspoons
Its a bit chicken and egg really, People don't feel welcome outside their own community so they don't mix and then there is no integration and its easy to hate people from a certain community if you don't know anyone from there.
I think integration IS better in London at least, I remember visiting friends and going for a picnic in a local park and the groups of people sitting around were all mixed. In our local park there would be no animosity but the groups would mostly be split by colour

I'm a northerner although I've lived all over in my life - and I'm not working-class - quite the opposite.

But even I know that it's a pretty simple answer: for the last 100 years or so, successive governments have treated the north and its working people (not people like me) with contempt. It was crystallised by Thatcher: she and her government Just.Didn't.Care.

Northerners to that mind set are not fully human.

You don't see this if you've not lived there. It's pretty obvious to people who live north of Crewe.

Of course, but if you're on a national payscale, large corporates, anything public sector and your housing costs half or a third of colleagues in the South, you're doing OK.

Even if you're not on a national payscale, housing is such a big part of COL that you need to be earning a lot more to be able to have the occasional meal out, at double the cost.

I'm just saying it's not all rosy either way.

You cannot expect years of being told to shut up not to eventually lead here?

Think of all the hundreds of reports you have heard over the years about 100's, sometimes 1000's of immigrants just being 'dumped' into a community. Those reports may just be in the news for one day, but that community has to live with that long-term, and no one has been listening to how that is changing their lives - the public services, the levels of poverty, crime etc.

I really don't know what people expect? It is so obvious that people are having to resort to rioting. Add to this their feeling that there is a two tier policing going on (BLM riots vs This Crackdown) then you can easily see why they feel they have no other option. Are people really going to take notice of a peaceful protest? History so far tells them not (see above for just being labelled a racist and dismissed)

It's a failure of politicians on all sides to ignore the people in these communities. The signs have been building for years.

The pictures coming out of Rotherham on the BBC website of rioters attacking the holiday inn are absolutely shocking. They remind me of the photos of Kristallnacht in Nazi Germany. What are earth are they going to do to the people inside (if people are still in there) if they get in?? It’s so depressing that people can behave like this.

@Mousefoot Another resentment is that the low prices you enjoyed are because of legal minimum wages being paid to bar staff and waiters.

Strange nothing happened under 14 years of tory government that facilitated this immigration issue? Strange how now labour get in the far right start up it's coordinated bh reform and tommy Robinson and Russia propaganda and by the way I live in dewsbury loads of muslism they don't affect my life but these idiots should be shipped out. I would swap immigrants for you guys any day

Strange nothing happened under 14 years of tory government that facilitated this immigration issue? Strange how now labour get in the far right start up it's coordinated bh reform and tommy Robinson and Russia propaganda and by the way I live in dewsbury loads of muslism they don't affect my life but these idiots should be shipped out. I would swap immigrants for you guys any day

I think the lying after the Southport murders sparked this.

People have been lied to for years.

Would you swap for any immigrant? Or would you like to do some checks on them first?

I've yet to meet a Reform voter who wasn't racist though. So I'm allowed to judge people on choosing to vote for a party who has all MPs that have been openly racist or xenophobic at times.

It's not an immigrant hotel.

It's a hotel that is used by the local council, and yes it does sometimes house immigrants. But it also houses women fleeing domestic violence and their children.

What lies?

They could not name the suspect until he was brought before the court, and they have been honest - he was born in the UK and his parents were migrants.

Not all large corporates pay equally throughout the country, even leaving aside London weighting; and the further north you go, the fewer large corporates have premises there. Public transport, even if affordable, tends to be poor outside the large cities, and fewer roads are geared up for heavy traffic, so if you live in a small northern town that may limit your options further.