Why is it a particular type of, usually men, who are normally the instigators of civil unrest?

[coworkingdesk]

It can’t be that they’re all just disillusioned or angry or even just thick. It largely seems to be working class men (and yes some women). When I passed the Tommy Robinson March last week when I was in London, it was a very similar demographic although I must admit it looked mainly quite calm.

I feel angry for the families of those poor girls, it’s beyond dreadful what happened to them but the rioters must know that they’re not helping them at all (or themselves).

So is it just racism? I saw some of the videos on X last night of black men and Muslims being singled out and attacked and can’t really think it’s down to anything else. The footage was shocking.

It's an often overlooked and disenfranchised group.

Well let’s do facts then.

90% crossing in boats are male (does this alone not concern you?)

Since May 2022, there has been a significant increase in the number of Albanians crossing the channel on small boats. From May to September 2022 Albanian nationals alone comprised 42% of small boat crossings, with 11,102 Albanians arriving by small boat in those five months (direct quote)

What do you conclude from this?

Where did you get your statistics @Rainbowsponge

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53699511#

Hmm.... Not sure that's fair. I now live in a middle class area (with a high Muslim population, I must add) but I grew up in an extremely deprived town, went to a failing comprehensive, was beaten up many times as a teenager. I know a lot about deprivation, about people who are disadvantaged, hopeless and angry. I live near Harehills (where the troubles in Leeds were) and see the dire conditions people are living in.
I absolutely do not dismiss the working class, disaffected white boys as scum. I've posted many times about my concern for them. I think on Mumsnet women are often seen as the only victims, or people from ethnic minorities. A white male is supposedly in the most privileged position, according to many - but I strongly disagree. 10% of working class young men die before they're 30. They have high rates of suicide and mental health problems.
I think one of the main priorities for the government is to improve the lot of these people at the bottom of the pile. I'm pretty sure that if they were living better lives they wouldn't be burning down hotels or consumed with hate.

Christ, here we go again.
The streets were not awash with empty houses before 'the immigrants came'
The hospitals were not awash with appointments or operating slots within 10 minutes of a referral before 'the immigrants came'
The schools were not brimming over with very, very good teachers before 'the immigrants came'
School class sizes were not comprised of 0, 11 or j 15 kids before 'the immigrants came'
Successive governments have denunded this country of housing, education, and removed council funding, . They've 'invested' in the NHS and public services, but ignored the mismanagement, so nothing changes
So this whole 'it's the immigrants, is disingenuous and shows the level of ignorance this country is gripped by

You're correct .

There are some females who come over but even the males can be raped by traffickers so it is very dangerous for the females.

Below is an extract from an article (Ch 4) on Garage being a fascist whilst still in school.

We have a long letter (below) written in June 1981 by a young English teacher, Chloe Deakin, begging the master of the college (head teacher), David Emms, to reconsider his decision to appoint Farage as a prefect. Deakin did not know Farage personally but her letter includes an account of what was said by staff at their annual meeting, held a few days earlier, to discuss new prefects.
The letter says that when one teacher said Farage was “a fascist, but that was no reason why he would not make a good prefect,” there was “considerable reaction” from colleagues.
The letter continues: “Another colleague, who teaches the boy, described his publicly professed racist and neo-fascist views; and he cited a particular incident in which Farage was so offensive to a boy in his set, that he had to be removed from the lesson. This master stated his view that this behaviour was precisely why the boy should not be made a prefect. Yet another colleague described how, at a Combined Cadet Force (CCF) camp organised by the college, Farage and others had marched through a quiet Sussex village very late at night shouting Hitler-youth songs.”

It's terrible that people on here are still excusing people who go around doing similar actions in 2024. I know many from deprived areas. They're not fascist racists.

*Farage

Disadvantaged males exist in all ethic groups.

A big influence on your future outcome is family involvement with your education.

If your family poison your mind you "should" have more just because you are "true british" how can the state solve that?

Unfriendly nations, pick any one you like, Russia, China, whomever, plant false information online which far right groups lap up, spark violence on the streets, our Government is occupied with civil unrest.

Online is full of poison, porn males men think they deserve a young fit arse to fuck, women are just meat yes? It turns average humans into jealously filled monsters because they think they should have more. It allows opinions and fake news to be presented as facts. If you want to believe something you can find the "evidence" to support it online.

If you add in alcohol, cocaine and steroids on a warm summer's day, well yes you are going to get grunts who think they should be king of an empire.

So what do the rioters want? A pat on the head, 4 bedroom house and a range rover for being a very good patriotic boy?

Or fewer resources and services whilst money is used repairing the damage?

So how does the Government "solve" this? A whole bunch of badly brought up, dumb sheep, high on coke, shouting "save our children"? Surely making your son do his homework would be more effective.

The Conservatives closing surestart centres didn't help. Parents at loggerheads with schools doesn't help.

The teachers trying to encourage disadvantaged children get called woke lefties.

So yeah the poisonous grunts who attack police, pull brown people out of cars, set fire to asylum hotels, smash up town centres can all rot in hell.

@FolkestoneMassive we don't own our own home, nor have private health- but yes I guess we would count as middle class - we did however move away from areas where it's full of the types of yobs that are rioting- worked very hard at our business including 15 hour days at various points and built it up . We don't own our home because by the point we were earning well we were too old to get mortgages anywhere we would actually want to live ( more so my husband than me I guess as he's bloody fussy) my point is places change whether we like it or not- education and skills give you the opportunity to think 'stuff this' - and rioting solves jack shit- it's not as if it's suddenly become shit in the last 5 weeks-so why not 6 months ago if it's about 'general shittiness- not being listened to ' this is about political agitation and muscle flexing by the far right - and using working class people as physical pawns to take the hit if they get caught. we have had a recent election- the far right were rejected for government - so they should let the elected government get on with governing for all- and work on making their own lives better and taking some personal responsibility too for improving their life - plenty of us felt very aggrieved about the Tory's and Brexit- yes we moaned on Twitter and Facebook , yes we had peaceful demos- we did not go out looting shops, abusing police, setting fire to stuff and generally shutting in our own nest and then moaning the nest looks a bit crap

I would argue that it is just the same male pattern violence dressed in different outfits. If you were to take away race and ethnicity from the profiles of all those causing violent disruption and murder then you’d be left with the fact they are all men between the ages of 18-45.

Men are the problem. Men and their culture of entitlement and rage.

Not all men riot but all riots and violent disorder and mostly staffed by men. It doesn’t matter what country, race or religion. The whole world is men killing others to satisfy some deep seated entitled rage.

Not that anyone will try to address it because we’ve all been conditioned to see it as normal.

Yes it’s the underlying theme of every violent act we have seen in the last few months. All men.

As a country we simply have little need for most young men. The closing of industry, coal mining, manufacturing, ship building, means brain rather than brawn - speaking generally - is what is needed. Machines now do the work that used to provide dignified work to working class men. Even the military absorbs fewer "brawn" blokes than before.
There is no future for these men and they know it. So of course they're angry as fuck.

The answer? Fuck knows. Who'd be a politician with these problems to sort out.

Don’t legitimatise it by calling it a crime of passion - it was a repulsive murder by a nasty thug.

TBH there have always been agitators who have piggy backed on civil protests for their own gain and have turned up to fight the police and descend into rioting and looting when peaceful protestors have gone home. Ultra left and ultra right. The disfranchised male youth inevitably get involved. It gives a brief sense of power before the police knock and criminal conviction.

The difference is that these are not legitimated peaceful protests that have been hijacked. Sure the men we see on our screens are angry but they look more like football hooligans than peaceful protestors with a legitimate grievance. Aggressive, leering, taunting - come and have a go if you think you're hard enough.

I don't imagine that they work in the NHS or any form of social service. If they did they would know that the same legitimate immigrants and non white people they are villainising keep these systems working.

But I doubt if the early agitators are unemployed or competing for services like social housing. Just like football hooligans. They may well be employed and private home owners. But once they have sown seeds of hatred they get back on their buses and leave the white, poor, disenfranchised young men that they claim to support to receive criminal convictions for rioting and looting.

They are in it for racist ideology. They don't get solidarity and community. The people of Southport and elsewhere who give up free time clear up do. The anti fascists who show up to say not in my name and protect those facing irrational hostility do.

The hostile attempts to blame immigrants, benefit claimants and the sick and disabled of the previous government have fuelled this and they should be held accountable. The argument that We don't need immigration we need to get people of benefits ignores the fact that most economic migrants have skills that those on out of work and disability benefit do not - doctors, dentists, nurses, vets etc - and that a lot of people receiving benefits are working but are so low paid that the government tops up wages - to the benefit of the employer not the employee.

This is all bollocks and hatred. We must all resist the rise of the far right because we know where it ends.

Maybe it sounds a bit conspiracy theory-ist but I wouldn't be surprised if some of the online stuff whipping up violence is being spread/amolified by foreign powers who are trying to destabilise the UK. So these men are actually being used as tools* to undermine the country of which they claim to be so proud.

*in both senses of the word

@reallytimetodeclutter that’s exactly right.

I don't think that's even a wacky take since the Cambridge Analytica revelations.

It's the successive Tory governments who said one thing (to appease their base) but in practice did another because they were pro-immigration, or needed the numbers in for the economy, but refused to be honest with the public.

Nobody wants these people coming in on boats but the legal roots are the vast majority of the numbers and that's entirely a government choice.

@SunnyDaySummer yes and that's an issue- Labour have already said they think it's an issue given the Tory's numbers- it is not however an issue to be out there looting, rioting , vandalising and abusing police about.

@reallytimetodeclutter absolutely- where do you think some of these right wing jocks get funding from to live the lives they do-

This is about fascism. The fascist ideology and its attendant components — opposition to working-class movements, hypernationalism, anti-democracy, white supremacy, and xenophobia, are a threat to democratic institutions and practices worldwide, but particularly the UK at the moment.
The Tories (and similar right wing political parties around the world) exist to ensure capitalism (creation and protection of wealth and power for the already wealthy and powerful) remains the status quo. At times when their power/wealth are threatened, they need a vehicle to attach themselves to create social disorder, and fascism is the vehicle. The Tories barely dirty their hands while it happens.
They work hand in hand with extreme right-wing fascist groups like EDL, Reform (in the UK) to whip up the disenfranchised, poorly -educated, ignorant elements of the working classes (who are looking for any excuse to blame anyone else and be heard), to do their dirty work, create disorder and chaos, lay the blame on vulnerable minorities in society and at the same time end up turning many ordinary people against them by their disgusting actions.
The Tories sit back, voice their disgust and wait. They are delighted to see this happen. They are hoping for a political re-set that will cause chaos in this country and stifle the Labour government not allowing it to achieve anything. They will continually criticise and blame it- taking no responsibility for the cause this feeling in the last 14 years. They will be waiting for an opportunity to step back in with more extreme immigration policies (which will be implemented by private companies and contracts given to their cronies) and destruction of our public services and state pensions- anything that costs them money and taxes.

If you voted Tory or Reform, this is what you voted for. Don't be disingenuous and protest that it isn't. This is what Reform wanted and were working at. The Tories are the more acceptable public face of Reform

Thank you @LuluBlakey1 for explaining it so precise and clear this is Facisim.

@LuluBlakey1 absolutely- they are using the working class that feel left behind as political pawns for their own agenda, along with old people who don't like change - just as Hitler did-

I saw a voxpop yesterday in one of these areas where they asked the bloke ( in his late 50s maybe) - bit of a 'geezer' what he was there for.

'Well it's not like it used to be '
Interviewer 'in what sense' ?
'Well we used to have loads of pubs and betting shops and now we ain't got hardly any'

So there we have it - may I suggest this twonk 'moves' if he's in an area with few- we have both in abundance!!

It's because they are sad, inadequate little pillocks OP. There are female ones too, but the males of that particular species are more noticeable.