Do you judge/ pity converts to Islam?

[Candyapplesandhearts]

Firstly I’m a convert to Islam. White European, so more than likely if you saw me you’d assume I was a convert, plus my name would definitely give the game away.

i live in a metropolitan area where converts are yes rare but not too too share whereby it’s shocking.

well keeping this in mind, I bought a block of sessions for a beauty treatment, and the aesthetician was visibly taken back by me firstly, fine it happens because I wasn’t what she was expecting, with my name and I show up in a headscarf.

but the questions, not only were they pretty inappropriate but also steeped in judgment. I was shocked. I could tell that she wasn’t necessarily being malicious or even hateful, but she clearly had a very pre conceived notion about my motivations and my choices. Ie several questions about my husband and how he made me convert, or as she said ‘become Islamic’, lots on clothing and how she often feels sorry for a lot of Muslim women.

truthfully MN, is this a thing? Deep down are these thoughts people have but maybe don’t voice.

in general even at work I do have questions asked but they are more diplomatically phrased- so now I’m wondering am I actually being judged/ pitied?

No, I'm agreeing that some religions oppress women. I also think your language is quite telling.

Yeah and that’s super problematic but they’re knobs and that’s how they feel, and it’s similar to how the likes of Andrew tate and the other ‘alphas’ talk about women.

im not going to claim the veil in Afghanistan isn’t a symbol of or symptomatic horrendous oppression but you can’t conflate a woman in the UK who wears it with an afghani woman

but to say they don’t look human. That’s super problematic and I can’t get onboard with that

When you see women in Afghanistan for example, covered head to toe, they don't look human.

Boris Johnson would agree with you. I won't repeat his comment.

Telling of what?

Are all Christian sects all over the world the same?

Is Midge down the road that volunteers at a CoE church the same as a Westboro baptist church protestor or bomber?

Surely that depends on why she wears it. The hijab is also nuanced. You could argue that there is no rule saying women should wear it but what about the comments she gets from others or from her own family? There is pressure to conform.

I was in London and there was a woman dressed head to toe in a burqa and the man with her called me a whore as I walked past. Do you think she chose to wear it?

Islam is cultural and you can't look at it out of context. Muslims are part of a community and there is pressure on both men and women to fit into that community or be ostracised.

That's horrible. Did you respond to him

You could say the same about Christianity looking at a trad wife or about Judaism looking at an exhausted mother of 8 living in a 2 bed Stamford hill flat whose dh 'prays full time'

Neither are representative of your average Christian or Jewish women.

You know exactly what I mean. 🫣

I remember you are Jewish. Do you think the same about jewish converts like me.

Are we very silly women as well...

These are all perhaps more visibly oppressed women, pretty much all religious teaching promotes oppression of women though.

I live in a very ethnically diverse area and unfortunately have had a few such comments and I tend to ignore them. I was tempted to shove him into the road but it passed.

I wouldn't want to live such a restricted life. I'd rather be Christian (which I am more drawn to). Though I am terrified of going to hell for believing in the wrong religion

No, I don’t

Christianity oppresses women too.
Unfortunately many religions also use fear to manipulate people. 😔

My religion actually encourages me to challenge and question every beliefs. There is no catechism, and there are no required beliefs. Everyone is free to believe and profess whatever they have learned about and believe.

Generally most of us believe that the bible/torah was a book written by man and shouldn't be taken literally, it is part myth. Sermons often challenge the moral lessons in the torah and attempt to interpret them from a contemporary lens.

If it is a question between religion and science our instinct would be to follow science

'In beliefs and practice Liberal Judaism is more radical than UK Reform Judaism, and has much in common with American Reform Judaism.

The movement has a strong intellectual tradition, and believes that Jewish texts should be reinterpreted in the light of modern scholarship and Jewish laws reassessed by their practical suitability to contemporary conditions.

So, for example, there is no obligation to obey Jewish dietary laws, but one can do so if it helps one's internal feeling of 'Jewishness' to do so.

This is typical of the Liberal belief that each individual should be encouraged to make their own decisions within the Jewish framework (and taking a questioning attitude to that framework), as opposed to the strict obedience to law that characterises Orthodoxy.

.So, for example, Liberal Jews don't accept that God was responsible for some of the ancient concepts and laws, such as the stoning to death of a rebellious son or the permanent ostracism from the community of Israel of the members of ancient Canaanite tribes. They believe that these were human laws that were part of the culture and moralities of their time and that have no application today.

This re-evaluation of scripture doesn't devalue the Torah. Liberal Jews regard the Torah, together with Mishnah, Talmud and Midrash, as an inexhaustible source of wisdom, guidance and inspiration. However, they believe that the Torah and other works should be interpreted in the context of the present day, rather than literally.

This is a form of Judaism (and the predominant form of religious Judaism in the USA/20-30% here). Not sure how it oppresses women.

'Liberal Judaism was the pioneer of gender equality in British Judaism. The movement has always regarded men and women as equal, and therefore men and women are not segregated during services as they are in some other forms of Judaism.
Women may participate fully in synagogue life:

• women can lead services
• women can be called up to the Torah
• women can become rabbis
• women can hold other synagogue offices

The movement's prayer book, Siddur Lev Chadash, uses gender-inclusive language in its translations. So, for example, masculine names for God, such as "Lord" and "King", are replaced by words such as "Eternal One" and "Sovereign", and the Matriarchs are mentioned in conjunction with the Patriarchs.
Women are encouraged to study Judaism in-depth, so that they are properly equipped to make informed decisions about their religious life.
Liberal Judaism rejects the traditional law of matrilineality, which teaches that a child must have a Jewish mother to be born Jewish. It accepts that children of mixed marriages should be treated alike, regardless of whether the mother or the father is the Jewish parent, and judged solely according to their upbringing.
Children also receive equal treatment, with girls and boys having equal parts in religious rituals and equal status in religious education.
Both girls and boys can have a service of baby naming in the synagogue, in which both mother and father participate fully.
Girls can go through the Bat-Mitzvah ('Daughter of Duty') ceremony, which is equivalent to the traditional male Bar-Mitzvah, when they're 13. This innovation is now available across most Jewish denominations.
At the ages of 15 and 16 Liberal Jews undergo the unique ceremony of Kabbalat Torah ('Acceptance of Torah' or 'Confirmation'). Here the service and Torah reading are equally divided between the boys and girls of the graduating class.
Men and women are accorded completely equal status in Liberal Jewish marriage law and ritual. Liberal Judaism objects to the Orthodox 'bill of divorce' by which the husband 'sends away' the wife. Liberal Jews consider this law to be one-sided.'

How?

Your wrote these words:
'Just an object for male consumption, goes swimming in glorified underwear etc.'

How what?

So they're equally oppressed/indoctrinated?
Not sure how that's better.

@Dkdjdjsns restrictions on contraception/abortion is one way.

There are plenty others depending where you look and how deep/far.

Quiverful women, westboro Baptist church, anti abortion, original sin, just a few

please read the whole sentence, I said any assumptions are deeply problematic but you can easily make that argument with the state of women’s fashion, look at Kanye wests wife, page 3, porn culture

It is not oppression to go to a religious service as a child and partake in religious events (many of whom are cultural).

Unless you think piano lessons and coronation garden parties are also oppression. It's a bit strange to say that in the uk where we have a monarch who is the freaking leader of the state religion and wanted his title to be defender of all faiths (but it was not permissible under c of E law). Same man also cheated on his wife and married his mistress.

You can't really be a true atheist here without asking for the monarchy to be disbanded..latter would never happen. So if C of E and the monarchy are happy to carry on, I think all religions should also carry on (with the exception of the more extreme versions, a lot of the unregulated faith schools should be shut down).