Do you judge/ pity converts to Islam?

[Candyapplesandhearts]

Firstly I’m a convert to Islam. White European, so more than likely if you saw me you’d assume I was a convert, plus my name would definitely give the game away.

i live in a metropolitan area where converts are yes rare but not too too share whereby it’s shocking.

well keeping this in mind, I bought a block of sessions for a beauty treatment, and the aesthetician was visibly taken back by me firstly, fine it happens because I wasn’t what she was expecting, with my name and I show up in a headscarf.

but the questions, not only were they pretty inappropriate but also steeped in judgment. I was shocked. I could tell that she wasn’t necessarily being malicious or even hateful, but she clearly had a very pre conceived notion about my motivations and my choices. Ie several questions about my husband and how he made me convert, or as she said ‘become Islamic’, lots on clothing and how she often feels sorry for a lot of Muslim women.

truthfully MN, is this a thing? Deep down are these thoughts people have but maybe don’t voice.

in general even at work I do have questions asked but they are more diplomatically phrased- so now I’m wondering am I actually being judged/ pitied?

They feel islam brings them peace, it "makes sense", they feel more valued and/or protected as a woman, sense of community, family structure. A woman who recently reverted told me that she's really disenfranchised with the feminist 'role', feels it is damaging for women and likes the idea of providing being primarily the man's role. Many women (and some men) have reverted recently because of the scenes in Gaza, when calamity strikes them they thank God or say in God we trust. That was very intriguing for them, and they want to experience that level of reliance on God.

Interesting. Course I can have all this community in Hinduism or Sikhism too, so why aren't women converting to these religions? .

lacking intersectionality and obscuring marginal voices

This is rich, laying the above at the feet of feminism. Fundamentalist religions are the epitome of lacking the understanding of multiple layers of oppression - always ignoring that women in their groups are being oppressed by the male adherents who practice the core tenets of their faith. And no one censors marginal voices better than a patriarchal religion or ideology.

I've no idea, maybe they are? I know of one woman who became a Hare Krishna (sp?). I wasn't looking for religion at all, stumbled across a book about world religions and for the first time started thinking about the actual beliefs of christianity. The trinity didn't sit right with me. Hinduism seemed very exotic and exciting but nothing that seemed in any way believable to me. Sikhism as far as I read is a mixture of Islam, hinduism and something else. Islam and Judaism were the only two that I felt were relatable, and after looking into both more in depth I decided Islam was the one for me.

I will say thought that AFAIK both Hinduism and Sikhism are fairly ethnically centric, whereas Muslims are from so many different colours, countries and ethnicities. Maybe it feels more inclusive because of that?

Who are these many women that you speak about, and who is grooming them?

So reverts are embraced by other Muslims? That's good to hear.

They obviously appreciate clear demarcations between the sexes. Your friend doesn't have a clear understanding of feminism, if she doesn't see it as about choice as well as equality.

I don't understand the link to Gaza, so it's in sympathy with the Palestinians?

Yes reverts are very much embraced, not in a grooming way though . Not in sympathy per se, but they were very impressed by their statements in the height of calamity. Sayings such as glory be to God, thanks be to God, in God we trust etc etc. They want to to experience that level of acceptance/perseverance in the height of adversity.

My great aunt converted to Hinduism. My uncle and mum converted to Catholicism. MIL and I converted to Judaism. Another uncle converted to Christianity.

Has to do with how accepting the religions are to converts. Think islam and Christianity are the most welcoming. Also there are a lot more mosques than synagogues
.

Yes @convertrevert and @Opalfleur2026 you make good points.

I didn't suggest anyone was being groomed. So they saw videos of Palestinians thanking god and decided to convert? I hadn't heard of that.

Orthodox Judaism says the same. But the large number of Jewish people who are secular, reform/liberal Jews or even people who go to orthodox synagogues but have otherwise moderate views/religious practices disagree. They aren't even the majority in Israel !

Islam has a wide range of practices. If you met Turkish Muslims for example.

And you seem tedious the extent to which I don’t want to engage with you further

@Lentilweaver

I suspect it has a lot to do with familiarity, Islam has a lot more in common with Christianity than Hinduism or Sikhism. If you ask a random person about any of the 3 Abrahamic religions they will know at least some (accurate or not) in depth facts . How many of the general public know Hindu gods , any customs , the story of Guru Nanak , the five K's of Sikhism etc.The customs are varied for Hindus and it's hard to keep track even in the same community/family. The rules aren't as familiar either, and Sikhism is fairly new in terms of religions.

Furthermore, both religions are against proselytising and trying to get people to convert. In fact , in Hinduism there isn't any official ceremony or anything to make you a "convert". If you get accepted by a sect/temple and you start observing with them and following the customs/rules, then that's it. In Sikhism they allow anyone that wants to know more to learn and observe and there is a baptism ceremony if I'm not mistaken.

One of the things that prompted me to start thinking about my own relationship with spirituality and faith was working with refugees and survivors of torture. Some of the things people had experienced were horrific, so horrific that it was hard to see how anyone could come through and still be able to have hope. Many of the people with whom I worked had strong faith, which had been a guide for their actions, a way to endure, and a hope for the future.

I wonder if some people may be experiencing similar feelings in the course of watching what has happened and is happening in Israel and Palestine. Both are countries with a strong relationship with religions, both populations have endured and continue to endure great hardship, and groups from both populations have demonstrated that faith can be a source of comfort and courage. That's then in sharp contrast with the other accounts in the media, which show faith as a harmful motivator for horrible acts. I think some people may want to know more about what's happening and why, including how people can find comfort in their faith during these horrors. Anecdotally, there's been a small but not insignificant increase locally in people being interested in learning more about Islam, Judaism, languages of the region, etc. Some of those people might end up feeling that Islam or Judaism is a path that works for them.

I wasn't referring to you, a previous poster said about women being groomed. I've never in my 30 years of being a Muslim seen something like that. Yes re Gaza. They said they couldn't believe in such hardship that the Gazans displayed such resilience and acceptance, and they wanted to explore Islam as a result as they wanted to feel like whatever life threw at them they would firstly feel they wanted to thank God.
In response to someone else - there's a huge spectrum of how people interpret Islam and subsequently practise it, it's not a one size fits all.

@Scirocco Yes I can see that. The pull towards faith is very strong when you see such suffering. There is certainly a vacuum in the West with the decline of religion, many people are searching for answers.

I see, that makes sense. Thank you.

During covid there was an explosion in conversions in the Jewish communities...

'Rabbi Sheridan reported that many students on Reform programmes had “no Jewish background or marriage plans. It seems that most filed the thought away that someday they would explore Judaism further. The pandemic, ironically, provided that day. They had more time and Covid itself brought intimations of mortality and thoughts of things beyond their material life.'

Can see it applies to Islam as well...

This lady is a local business owner, quite relatable, and tells her story to converting/reverting to Islam.

Ironically the people who judge Muslim women and see them as oppressed are actually encouraging them to take on more intense religious practices.

When people feel their faith is under threat that is what they do. If they feel judged that's what they do.

Opal. I think that’s a very good point. Certainly as a Jew who has barely given much thought to my religion and who doesn’t feel any pull to Israel, I’ve never felt closer to my heritage than I have since 7 October 23. I feel strongly that Israel has a right to exist, have worn the necklace with my Hebrew name on that my late DGM bought me when I was small. I always kept it because it reminded me of my lovely DGM, but only wore it when I was with her. Now I wear it regularly. I feel more Jewish and more defensive of Judaism, simply because we are under such great threat and are the object of such hate for so many people. I am an atheist and that won’t change, but I feel very aware of my Jewishness for the first time ever. I know others who feel the same. When minority groups experience an increase in racism and feel clearly un accepted, it definitely services to push them into a more insular and tightly knit and defensive group.mm

This thread has meant that I am far more sympathetic to my SILs who made aliyah to israel without a plan in their 20s. Never used to understand why cos it didnt make financial sense..It didnt really end well but now I understand their motivation better (just as I now understand why my Muslim colleague says uk is shite and wants to move to dubai).

If white British women judge them for being orthodox jewish women (they also have Hebrew names that most brits can't pronounce) and label them as oppressed, it is a difficult situation to be in and no one wants to feel like they don't fit in.

I think my DH got off a little lighter as he is atheist and is also a less social person (plus had me for company).

And actually my SILs are feminist, university educated, pro lgbt. They just happen to be religious and it can absolutely go together.

That's well explained @Scirocco. Suffering and mortality certainly does drive people towards faith. The idea of a blueprint for life is certainly attractive. I am just not sure such a blueprint exists.

Not related to this thread but the war has made me question my faith in some ways. My SILs were in Israel and they said that the IDF was protecting the gazans by bombing them. I understand it was because they were scared. But I find the whole concept hard to accept- that they can feel so righteous even when they don't actually do anything for their adopted country and just claim the aliyah benefits.they have all left israel now..

But I thought that this wasn't my religion. I have found like-minded people though so that has restored my faith somewhat. Israel will go through many changes and it's probably better if my faith is not linked to its politics.