Thread 3 Starmer: Digging has started, bigger shovel required

[DuncinToffee]

Previous thread

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5117727-thread-2-starmer-return-of-the-labour-government?page=1

And Merseyside Police, of course. I’d seen reports of lots of Lancashire officers heading down the A59 and in my head Southport is still Lancashire.
That those EDL wankers required resources to be pulled from several areas is disgusting. I’m quite speechless reading that report tbh. It’s not that Southport is special in any way, but to know there is that number of (mainly) men willing to attack officers, cause fear and alarm outside a place of worship, rip apart walls, burn police dogs at the drop of a hat is terrifying.
Every bit of ‘casual’ racism you hear on the street leads to this. Every comment left up by MNHQ adds to this (was astonished to be told to counteract clear examples of contempt of court/racism on the thread myself yesterday - NO, that’s YOUR job, light touch moderation or not).

I am very pleased to have found a little oasis of sanity amid some of the appalling comments that I have been reading elsewhere.

I particularly want to echo the sentiments I’ve read earlier in the thread about there being a huge lack of education and understand in the wider public about how the justice system works.

We should be teaching this at school. It should be part of PHSE.

And I haven’t the words for the yobs in Southport. They are the absolute worst of Britain. There is no excuse for behaving like that.

@DrRiverSong hello and welcome. Love your username. 💙💙.

Thanks for the welcome @Cheguevarahamster Bet you can guess which series I’m rewatching for the 4th or 5th time at the moment 🤣.

Merseyside Police said those behind the violence had been fired up by social media posts which incorrectly suggested an Islamist link to Monday’s stabbings
From the BBC News report. MNHQ would be well advised to take heed of this.

Also, that report’s opening paragraph doesn’t do nearly enough to make it clear the people rioting were not the people holding the vigil outside The Atkinson earlier. It makes it sound as if the same group just moved on to attack the mosque, which they did not. I don’t want Southport painted as some racist enclave in the NW .

The BBC news at 10 o'clock was pretty clear last night that they were different groups and focussed much more of their time on the community in Stockport coming together, than a much smaller number of thugs from elsewhere determined to be violent. I was pleasantly surprised.

That’s good @absquatulize , thank you for highlighting that. The report does go on to say that the thugs travelled from elsewhere but the main paragraph doesn’t distinguish much between them, The BBC has a duty of care to the community to make it clearer imo.

The BBC is now allowed to do its job. I was appalled to read the report, so many officers injured and who attacks police dogs? I hope these bastards get very long sentences.

I do think some questions might need to be asked at some point about the policing of this given it was planned. The initial police protection looks woefully inadequate given who was there. Appreciate they have better things to do right now than this (and policing Neanderthals tbh).

Keep seeing stuff about Leeds riots. I was in hospital again last week and feel like I’ve missed something.

I'm absolutely horrified, fuming and emotions I cannot describe at the rioting and violence in Stockport last night.

This is a direct result of the inflammatory rhetoric that's been banded about by some in government.

The absolute disrespect for the families of Stockport based on made up information on SM.

I'm absolutely fucking horrified at what our country has become

My very limited knowledge of theories of rioting is that in Leeds the police did exactly the right thing, by withdrawing and not giving the thugs what they wanted - a confrontation. As a result the whole thing fizzled out, whereas in the past the police have gone in hard and things have escalated.

From the limited reports yesterday it appears that the police again did not go in hard, many in the crowd did not join in with the disorder, but more than likely would have done with a stronger police action.

I agree - but even if it wasn't made up information it would be a reprehensible response to such a horrific event.

I may be misremembering but there wasn't this level of response to the Ariana Grande attack was there?

was astonished to be told to counteract clear examples of contempt of court/racism on the thread myself yesterday - NO, that’s YOUR job, light touch moderation or no

Oh , I so agree with this saucery. It feels like MN has become the BBC and everything has to be two sided. No, some things are just plain wrong. All this idea of otehr posters having some duty of care to debate in measured terms leads to the cesspit threads and allows extreme voices to be heard. And some boards are full of this because most of the reasoned voices , or those who will push back hide threads and whole boards. Echo chambers develeop.

I know! We have Black Mumsnetters, Muslim Mumsnetters, Craicnet etc. How about Racist Mumsnetters ??!

MNers with disabilities have been making this point for years. I feel like the it’s your responsibility to educate other posters may have been extended though.

Also a good example rafa.

Perhaps the same levels of hate and bigotry hadn't quite been stirred up by then?

On another note has anyone read this article? Some really interesting points in it.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2024/04/01/what-have-fourteen-years-of-conservative-rule-done-to-britain

It seems so. There was an article on the Beeb today about the police becoming increasingly concerned by ideology- less extremism. Young men who just actually love violence and could easily perpetrate a terror event for the hell of it.

Not the picture I would have chosen for the article, but hey

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c6p20dl71jpo

I agree - but even if it wasn't made up information it would be a reprehensible response to such a horrific event

Absolutely. No doubt about that. But I can't help but think the rhetoric is what has caused people to react this way. The out and out lies on SM about who perpetrated this attack fuelled a fire already burning. I very much doubt if it had been a white male the same response would have prevailed.

This has shaken me to the core of what we've become.

The irony of course being his parents fled "safe" Rwanda (before he was born) because of the genocide there.

It's a fucking disgrace.

I'm sad that the families who should be at the centre of our thoughts as a nation, who are probably in shock, and certainly grieving are now being pushed aside by emotional vampires and idiot thugs. How have we as a nation got to the point where these people think that this is a helpful response.

I'm so angry with the previous government's for stirring this undercurrent of ignorance and allowing groups like this to organise into thuggery.

I'm sick of it being blamed on football fans. It's got fuck all to do with football.

My thoughts are with the families and friends of those caught up in this horrific attack, with the responders and those who support them, and with those trying to keep the community safe.

Southport is a horror. These people are setting fire to a place of tragedy.

I do notice some people being more explicitly racist. That seems to be more testing the waters to see if others agree. I think a lot of people are kidding themselves if they think this will be about well I’m second generation born here etc and making that argument. Racists do not care. Or people have forgotten the BNP when compulsory repatriation of non whites was their idea. This is all about English and white nationalism. These people were given a kind of licence imo during Braverman’s time and they are getting bolder when there is a Labour government. These are clashes which they want.

Reform are also English nationalism and that is clear from space. It is growing.

The Labour Party need to throw a lot of resource at the criminal Justice system and visibly beef up the police. This “soft Labour” narrative will grow unless they do.

I am really angry that social media sites have allowed their platforms to be used to stoke hate, resulting in this riot. MNHQ also needs to get its act together. I will say this though, the night watch people do a better job. Last night @EineKleineNachtwatcher
acted really quickly to suspend a poster and hide threads.

Someone on another thread is now gleefully reporting that the name and DOB is on Twitter and he will soon turn 18. They can't wait, can they?

Welcome @DrRiverSong

Football hooligans not fans. They aren’t really fans of football as travelling round the country looking for a fight. The EDL has its roots in the old ‘firms’. Mostly I suspect they are just fans of beating the shit out of somebody.