I am going to be the companion from hell on this holiday

[Plasticfoot]

Stop me!

I'm a fairly experienced mountain walker, something I did a lot with DH until he died. I haven't been since.

This summer, a group of my fittest friends have decided to climb a big one. They're fit, it's well within their capabilities, but I don't think they realise quite how hard it will be and they don't know mountains.

I'm really struggling to convince them about the kit they'll need, or the planning the route needs, the fact that the weather (visibility) matters or that navigation isnt just a matter of following the path. Some are even talking about taking beer up with them.

I've done this mountain a couple of times before, a tough challenge but straightforward in good weather. People die on it though and I've turned back when the weather turned, as it does in the mountains.

I can already feel I'm getting on people's nerves. I know I do worry, but there are reasons for that.

Currently I'm trying to tell them we can't fix a certain day for the climb, we'll need to look at the weather forecast closer to the time and be ready to go next day, if it looks OK, which seems normal to me and will make for a safer, more enjoyable trip. No one's getting it. I'm getting frustrated and they think I'm being bossy and overdramatic.

I can't see what was so bad about @Sidebeforeself 's post? It was obviously a joke.

Thanks @diktat ..I really didnt mean to cause such a furore or derail the thread!

We started to climb snowdon on a warm, sunny and dry October day. At the top, the mist came over and for a few minutes it was freezing with very poor visibility. We were prepared but it took us by surprise. And snowdon has a cafe to shelter in!

So conditions do change very suddenly. OP, I would just back off. You've said your piece. Hopefully your friends will take it onboard sooner to the time and sort themselves out.

But in this case we’re talking about people walking up a hill without due care. Which is neither illegal nor able to be stopped.

While I agree you can’t always stop someone doing something stupid, I would be telling the group exactly why I was pulling out (if that’s what OP decides). If something happens to them, I would need my conscience to be clear that I had tried my hardest to make them aware of the dangers.

And despite some comments on here, walking up mountains carries a significant amount of risk. Even ‘just’ on Dartmoor members of the army died recently due to poor conditions. It doesn’t stop it being a beautiful place to go - but go prepared and with your eyes open.

The MR people I know are far less judgemental and more forgiving of people making bad choices than most people, tbh!

I don't think you could volunteer doing mountain rescue if you were judgemental. It would drive you to distraction.

I always wonder what would happen the day they don't get enough volunteers, or funding.
I think users should be made to pay personally but if people are nice enough to risk their lives for idiots ... Who am I to tell them not to?
I just don't donate.

MR risk their lives so people can enjoy the mountains. They don’t do it so idiots can deliberately flout advice and expect to be rescued.

You have spectacularly missed the point. If these "climbers" need help they are then putting others at risk.

In truth there is a lot of alarm on this thread about a group who are in many ways quite well set up.

Are they fit and physically capable? Yes
Is there at least one member of the group who can read a map etc? Yes (two)
Are they well equipped? Well, some are buying boots and waterproofs, as runners they will probably have layers and some sort of waterproofs. The OP and probably sensible man will have first aid kit, whistle, space blanket.
Will they press on in terrible weather? Probably not, on the day.

I am an experienced fell walker and sensible and cautious. I know how to read a map and navigate in mist. But in the end, walking on hills is a walk. A strenuous walk in an environment that can be harsh if things go wrong and that needs to be respected. But fitness, common sense, sturdy non slippy footwear and an ability to know exactly where you are and where you are going with a generous time in which to do it is all you need for a lovely day out in our fantastic UK scenery. (Disclaimer: summer only, free of ice and snow )

They are almost certainly fit enough, but I would be very worried by their cavalier attitude and apparent inability to take advice. Despite having no experience of mountains they won't listen to OP. It suggests that in a scenario where OP (and/or the other experienced person) thinks the weather is unsuitable, or there is some other reason for calling off the hike or turning back part way, they will just ignore her and put the group in danger.

I agree with this. They aren’t listening to the actual experienced climbers now, there is nothing to suggest they’d take a different attitude when it could be dangerous.

Also, is the OP expected to carry sufficient supplies for all of them? Or will she end up in a position where she has to give up her own supplies, possibly risking herself?

I wouldn't drop out of the holiday, but if the weather on the day planned for the walk up the mountain was bad I just wouldn't go.

Haven’t RTFT yet but surely these are movable plans easily swapped round at the time?

Genuinely, I would not go with them. You won't enjoy it and if something went wrong you would get the blame.

I disagree. It was completely inappropriate.

Depends if they are taking their own bikes or hiring. I hired from somewhere in the lakes last year and had to pay in full up front when booking, no refund if cancelled. So that’s probably not flexible.

Wild swimming, definitely. Guess the problem is that if the weather isn’t good enough to walk in, it’s also a bit shit for wild swimming!

But they rescue 'idiots who flout advice and expect to be rescued' every bit as often as they do the well-prepared for whom something unforeseen went wrong, just as lifeboat crews risk their lives to rescue both hardworking fishing crews who've lost power in bad weather and drunk teenagers who've gone joyriding in a motorboat.

MR and lifeboat crews are deeply admirable people, but neither have a category of 'people who deserve to be rescued' vs 'people who don't deserve to be rescued'.

I found myself thinking about this last night. I'm not a fell walking expert, but in the end I don't think that's the real issue as the OP knows about this. It's about boundaries, and setting them clearly.

So I think OP you need to work out what your lines in the sand are - and then communicate them clearly. Are you OK with beer as long as you're not carrying it; what do you need them to take, what guidance MUST they follow (i.e. sticking together). If you work out what the dealbreakers are, and spell them out, what happens after that is kind of inevitable one way or the other. And whatever it is, it won't be a problem for you.

I just saw this online and thought of this thread. I really hope she's found safe and well of course. And this is a woman described as an experienced hill walker. You just don't know what could happen, even if you're prepared, but being prepared is better than not.

https://www.scotland.police.uk/what-s-happening/news/2024/july/appeal-to-trace-hill-walker-ruth-betts-reported-missing-near-kinlochleven/?utmsource=Twitter&utmmmedium=social&utmcampaign=Orlo

Oh dear.. you can't reason with stupid
I've watched mountain rescue documentaries and have seen how easy weather turns and even seasoned climbers get caught out
Step back and wait for the pennies to drop in their heads

https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/walker-gets-hypothermia-july-eryri-29609466#Echobox=1721904644

Just thought I'd pop this link on this thread for the few posters who think the OP is being dramatic.

Hypothermia in Wales in July.
The mountains will always be unpredictable.
Op is totally correct in wanting this trip to be planned with more thought.

Hoping very much she is found safe.