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So why do people like trump??

141 replies

Bucees · 21/07/2024 22:07

I can clearly see why people don't like trump but why on earth do people actually like him?

Can't even work it out?

OP posts:
BruFord · 23/07/2024 04:19

@MessinaBloom That’s a good description of how he appeals to voters who feel disenfranchised.

So what can the Harris campaign do to turn this around? Traditionally many current Trump supporters would’ve voted Democrat-how can the Dems win them back?

honestyISkind · 23/07/2024 04:26

More than 70 million Americans voted for Trump. Dismissing them all as (choose slur) is a great way to get him elected again.

If you actually care about the why, just politely ask Trump voters why they love him. There are millions of them on Twitter.

MessinaBloom · 23/07/2024 04:53

@BruFord

So what can the Harris campaign do to turn this around? Traditionally many current Trump supporters would’ve voted Democrat-how can the Dems win them back?

It could be too late. However there are some key things the Democrats could do to appeal to these voters. If Harris becomes the Presidential nominee, the VP nominee should come from a red state. Ideally, the Presidential nominee should come from a red state too - but you see what I mean. I'd then focus a good deal of messaging on the ways Trump is not like regular people. I don't mean going down conspiracy rabbit holes that MAGA people could then push back on (things like the Kushners made millions from the Saudis/Chinese during Trump's previous term), but actual, demonstrable facts.

That would be a start.

TomPinch · 23/07/2024 04:54

Stumped7 · 21/07/2024 22:32

Here are a few reasons:

  • His "America First" principles and assertion of all nations to determine their own futures.
  • He brokered a deal normalising relations between Israel and the UAE.
  • His reduction of US troops' presence overseas.
  • Commitment to curbing migration, shifting the visa lottery to a merit based system.
  • Reducing the prices of drugs in the US and importing cheaper drugs from abroads to afford people discounts.
  • He's a strong advocate of law enforcement.
  • He signed an executive order introducing several police reforms, offering federal grants for improved practices, including the creation of a database to trace abuses by officers. He advocated for the prohibition of controversial chokehold methods for restraining suspects.
  • He has advocated for removing employment barriers for ex-offenders.
  • He's in favour of low taxes and low State interference in people's lives and in business.
  • He rolled back federal regulations on businesses, enacted corporate and income tax cuts and signed executive orders supporting preferences for domestic-made products.
  • He sought to end reliance on China and protect US manufacturing. He's one of the only American leaders to have taken a very hard-line stance on China and protect American manufacturers from foreign competition. He renegotiated past trade details that were unfair to the US.
  • He succeeded in reversing the US trade deficit during his presidency, the first time in 6 years.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2020-53828147

Edited

I am no fan of Donald Trump but there are some specifics here that warrant answering. From afar, the US presidential race looks like it's all about personality or ethos, but I'm sure policy has its place.

I suspect some of the broad-brush comments on American society aren't taking this sufficiently into account.

Thebellofstclements · 23/07/2024 05:00

PhillipMontyTomato · 21/07/2024 22:23

Its the usual playbook. Whip up people's anger and hatred and blame everything on minority groups and foreigners.

No one could understand why the sensible, cultured Germans wanted to vote for Hitler in the 1930s either given that he was clearly a frothing madman but lots of them did.

Edited

Hitler wasn't a frothing madman in the 30s, he was an excellent orator that spoke to a battered, humiliated nation, offering them hope, scapegoats and aspiration.
And he made the trains run on time.
The madness descended but by then it was too late.

TomPinch · 23/07/2024 05:11

Said by @RedToothBrush

"Western Europe moral values are tied to helping others and collectively looking after each other whereas US moral values are tied to religious belief or new ideas about race or gender."

You've had a lot to say. I think you should also say what you're basing your views on.

I am not at all convinced that Americans are less generous than western Europeans or less concerned about their communities. Not on the basis of the ones I've met. They just don't generally see "collective help" as a role reserved to the state.

If I threw out a comment that British people sit back and expect government to sort out all their problems I would rightly get slammed.

user556453 · 23/07/2024 05:21

Meowzabubz · 21/07/2024 22:21

I remember driving through Kansas in 2016 and it really clicking why. It is very working class vs middle/upper class. The democrats are very focused on 'people issues'. Social issues. The people in red states don't really have that privilege, they're worried about practical issues that impact them and their families in their day to day lives.

They're worried about tax because how do they run their farm if it gets to high? What jobs do they if fracking gets banned and it's the only industry in the area? The local school is only open 3-4 days a week because there isn't enough money to hire teachers, but the government is requiring what little money there is be diverted to social education rather than recruitment. Access to internet connection is poor. The local supermarket only gets delivery once every 3 weeks. The whole town is on well water that's contaminated by led. Fentynal is killing their youth in huge numbers.

They have all these very real issues of poverty that keep getting substantially worse, so it feels like a slap in the face when they see things like immigration or lgbtq+ held up as a number one issue.

But Donald Trump? He takes the time to speak to them on their level.

This post makes no sense. Kansas is a fully republican-controlled state. Some rural schools have made community decisions to go to 4 days a week due to teacher shortages. Kansas schools are run by Kansas Republicans who set their educational policy. They decide the budget allocations. This is literally a Republican policy put in place by their own elected Republican representatives.

Kansas's own elected Republican representatives have also declined to accept federal funds that would enable more middle and low-income families in the state to receive affordable health care. This link explains it.
www.npr.org/2024/04/22/1245146972/kansas-alabama-medicaid-expansion-uninsured-health-care-obamacare

Republicans may spout a lot about dems only caring about lgbtq+ issues and 'social issues' but the reality is that democrats in washington do a fuckton on behalf of Kansas and other similar states.

i.e.
Under the American Rescue Plan, Kansas will receive $1.6 billion in direct state fiscal aid and $826 million in local government aid from the federal government.

www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/ARP-State-by-State_Kansas.pdf

user556453 · 23/07/2024 05:29

Diverze · 22/07/2024 08:26

I can't believe I am saying this, but I think if I were American I would quietly be voting for Trump this time around. The Biden administration has completely failed to protect the rights of women and girls and what is happening to gender questioning children, most of whom are autistic or otherwise vulnerable, is a tragedy. I don't think I could vote for a side that doesn't even seem to acknowledge the issues, let alone consider them carefully.

You might want to have a look at the Dobbs decision (not to mention project 2025).

SinnerBoy · 23/07/2024 06:45

SecretWitch · 21/07/2024 22:18

Christ if I know. I live in the US, in the Midwest. I want to tell every person with a Trump bumper sticker that he wouldn’t piss on them if they were on fire. People just seem to continuously vote against their best interest here.

My (British) dad has friends near Boise, Idaho - religious, conservative farmers.. They haven't been over for a few years, but the write and send Christmas and birthday cards, they were pleased to have voted Trump. My parents just went "Oh well..."

They wrote the following summer, bemoaning the fact that they'd been taken in by a charlatan.

RedToothBrush · 23/07/2024 08:04

CarmelaBrunella · 22/07/2024 12:55

Indeed, @CheerfulYank ! It's a sort of Victorian pull yourself up, meritocracy mentality. Then along came Keynes and kind of socialism we got in the post war UK. Perhaps it's the pioneering spirit? Every person for themselves?.

Edited

The work hard mentality I think owes a lot to religious beliefs - the Methodist ideals of working hard and idleness being sinful still persist in the UK in areas which Methodism was strongest. These areas tend to be old mining areas. There are multiple similarities between voting patterns in the UK and US in line with this too for a number of reasons.

And yes, being a settler would bring a certain mentality. You couldn't rely on anyone else. You survived or you died. Substance living really stopped in the UK much earlier than it did in the US because of urbanisation.

The reality of the American Dream has largely died and has been replaced by a new class system as the country has matured and an establishment formed. It's meant opportunities have shrunk. But many haven't quite grasped this - partly because if they acknowledge that it undermines certain parts of this inner sense of national pride and identity.

Meanwhile the UK diverged in its mindset due to it's lived experience during WWII and how the public and state worked together to win the war (the reality is slightly different to this myth - but it's one that's been imprinted on our national identity).

If you think about Trump mantras like America First in the context of areas which haven't changed much in 200 years in makeup, settling the land, isolation and looking after your own mentalities it actually makes a lot more sense. These are concepts Europeans really struggle with because it's wildly different to their experiences over the last 100 years and how Europe has developed.

The whole thing is fascinating. You do have to look at how countries have developed and key moments and lifestyle to get national identities better.

wast542 · 23/07/2024 09:21

"Less corrupt than whom?"

Current administration

PhillipMontyTomato · 23/07/2024 18:18

Thebellofstclements · 23/07/2024 05:00

Hitler wasn't a frothing madman in the 30s, he was an excellent orator that spoke to a battered, humiliated nation, offering them hope, scapegoats and aspiration.
And he made the trains run on time.
The madness descended but by then it was too late.

I just don't think that is true. Hitler wrote Mein Kampf in the 1920s in which he laid out clearly the paranoid and evil ideology which he would follow during his time in power.

He also looks pretty crazy and ranting to me at the Nuremberg Rallies in the 1930s prior to being elected.

He was widely mocked and underestimated both in Germany and in the UK and America for that reason.

Stumped7 · 25/07/2024 13:53

FalderalderaldoSittingintheWater · 22/07/2024 09:25

and he and his running mate are trying to turn america into a RL version of the Handmaiden's Tale
Women will have no rights in anything, including over their own body, and will be purely brood mares

What are you referring to specifically? I assume abortion laws?

What the Trump administration actually did was hand powers back to individual states to decide their own abortion laws. In some states, this led to a tightening to abortion regulations. In others, abortion laws were liberalised.

ForMellowHam · 25/07/2024 16:02

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

user556453 · 25/07/2024 16:18

Stumped7 · 25/07/2024 13:53

What are you referring to specifically? I assume abortion laws?

What the Trump administration actually did was hand powers back to individual states to decide their own abortion laws. In some states, this led to a tightening to abortion regulations. In others, abortion laws were liberalised.

What Trump did is give lifetime appointments to unelected people who were selected specifically because they were going to use that power to exert control over women's bodily autonomy.

Stumped7 · 25/07/2024 17:18

user556453 · 25/07/2024 16:18

What Trump did is give lifetime appointments to unelected people who were selected specifically because they were going to use that power to exert control over women's bodily autonomy.

You don't address the fact that after the reversal of Roe v Wade, some states actually liberalised abortion laws and made abortion more accessible, and time limits longer.

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