So why do people like trump??

[Bucees]

I can clearly see why people don't like trump but why on earth do people actually like him?

Can't even work it out?

You make very good points, @RedToothBrush . It's a mistake to look at this situation through British or European eyes. It's a very different nation. I don't like the condemnation of Trump supporters as "imbeciles" (horrible word) any more than I liked "knuckle dragging little Englanders" to diminish those who voted Brexit.
All these issues are far more multi layered than some people think.

People like Trump and Farage appeal to the poorly-educated and low income people because they promise them jam tomorrow, while telling them the narrative they want to hear
Sadly, they are inable to sort the lies and rhetoric from what is actually happening
Rather like brexit voters

I can't believe I am saying this, but I think if I were American I would quietly be voting for Trump this time around. The Biden administration has completely failed to protect the rights of women and girls and what is happening to gender questioning children, most of whom are autistic or otherwise vulnerable, is a tragedy. I don't think I could vote for a side that doesn't even seem to acknowledge the issues, let alone consider them carefully.

@FalderalderaldoSittingintheWater both Brexit and this election are slightly more complex than the failures of poor, stupid people.

I did not call anyone stupid. Poorly-educated was the term, and it is not synomomous

Yes. We all have a darker side , a selfish weak version of who we would prefer to be. And we all have our prejudices and hangups.

Now this man , who is very powerful rich and famous, says that's fine. It's even a good thing. His fabulous wealth may even be a sign of God's favour. Very seductive message. But it has limits - he has never won the popular vote.

Poorly educated needs to be seen through the lens of structural inequality in the US.

If you can't get a scholarship and you are poor, you aren't educated.

This doesn't mean you are stupid.

There are plenty of educated people in Europe who would not be educated in the US. And plenty of uneducated people in the US who would excel in Europe.

Structurial economic equality is what Black Lives Matter identified. It's also the bit that educated Democrats removed from the discourse. Because socialism is seen that badly as 'anti-american' even by non whites in the US (noting that if you are black and educated you are likely to be financially much better off or have done the whole thing of working hard to finance it yourself and have the mentality that if you can do it, why can't others).

It's not that.
It's about small town politics. It's about not thinking LGBTQ people on college campuses are the "most oppressed" when you live in a trailer park working minimum wage jobs since the local manufacturing plants shut down, and it's that or move hundreds of miles from your roots. And you have zero chance of affording a college education yourself. When your kids are dying of drug overdoses and you can't afford to get your mother's breast lump checked out in case it's cancer, because you don't get medical insurance on your minimum wage job. It's not just "good people versus selfish weak people" and if you truly believe that, you are part of the problem.

I know it's not synonymous. Nevertheless, you are categorising people in a superficial and limited way.

But Trump has made them all believe that the mainstream media is left wing and are conspiracists against him, so they won’t seek out those sources or believe what they say! They only trust his word. It’s a con trick. He can tell them anything he wants, however big the lies, and they believe him, and only him. Like any proto dictator, he has managed to convince them that, despite his wealth, privilege, criminality and lack of any sort of principles, he is just like them, the disadvantaged ones, and is some sort of messiah who can lead them to a better future, which is what we all want.

It’s shocking and frightening, with deadly consequences for the rest of the world, if he is elected.

Good points, @Diverze . It's so limiting just to think of this in simple terms. Far more challenging to look at structural inequality and think why are people uneducated and poor?

Thank you, @WhereIsTheHare good points.
I was watching one of those BBC pre election segments where they interviewed voters. They went to a poor part of Sheffield. One of the 7 most poor in the UK. They asked a man who he was voting for. He said Reform. Why? "Because Farage is straight talking and he'll shake it up a bit". This was a safe Labour seat. This man was looking for change and saw it in Farage.

But Trump has made them all believe that the mainstream media is left wing and are conspiracists against him, so they won’t seek out those sources or believe what they say!

The mainstream media poisoned their own well. Here's one of the leading news/commentary people in US media, Joe Scarborough, explaining to his MSNBC audience in March how Biden was at the top of his intellectual game:

Not all Trump voters are purely educated.
We stayed as guestsof a wealthy doctor, a consultant who dropped into the conversation "of course we're all hoping Trump gets in" like it was obvious. He admitted he didn't like Trump as a person but he was voting for his policies.
As we were his guests and I didn't want to be rude I just avoided talking politics with him.
Definitely deep in a Red State but also not a conservative Christian.

And half of GOP Congress seem to be lawyers

I wonder why that is, @BruceAndNosh ?

As I said, i did not use the word stupid

Low taxation.

"Why should we pay for the healthcare of drug addicts?"

Fear, in a lot of cases.

I’m American and of the firm belief that if there had been no 9/11, there would have been no Trump presidency.

Ever since 9/11, there has been a lot of…fear? Uneasiness? I don’t know. A lot of people seemed to feel our very way of life was in danger after. And for some (racist) people, Obama was another sign that things are changing. Trump is an antidote to that because he says racist and sexist and xenophobic things, proudly, and they resonate with those people.

As someone once said, he’s a poor man’s idea or a rich man and a stupid man’s idea of a smart man. They’ll vote for him no matter what.

There's still a notion more reminiscent of Victorian Britain (remember who emigrated from where and when) about deserving poor and undeserving poor than exists in the UK.

It still is alive and kicking in the UK but it's different and more extensive in the US.

McCarthism killed many careers of people who perhaps were more left leaning. It's never recovered.

Then the religious element and realities of being a setter are still very much apparent and carry through generations. It's still a hard lifestyle in many more rural areas.

But I haven't said it is about ' selfish weak people ' anywhere. And of course it is true that people in old industrial areas have been abandoned by both parties - same thing happened in England. Mandelson famously said that wasn't a problem because the working class ' have nowhere else to go'. He has zero connection with them despite being MP for Hartlepool for years. And they proved him wrong.
In reality it is educated liberals who have nowhere else to go - especially in the USA 🇺🇸. Harris would do well to campaign in the Great Lakes and pick someone like Shapiro as running mate. And Deliver for those places.
But none of this negates my point : Trump is not appealing to our better nature. And voters in trailer parks know fine well he won't help them - he spent 4 years helping the rich , that's why he was evicted in 2020 losing by 7 million votes.

and he and his running mate are trying to turn america into a RL version of the Handmaiden's Tale
Women will have no rights in anything, including over their own body, and will be purely brood mares

I genuinely don't think it's a stupidity thing. It's a core values thing. Core values we don't have in the UK (we are largely atheist and slightly socialist as a nation).

This means we just don't get It because we dont share values.

Fear of change is definitely a factor having said that. You have to see that through the idea that the coasts have lost touch with god and the crime rates have risen etc etc. If you live in a flyover state you are much less likely to have ever left the country so why would you feel responsibly to be involved in global politics? You would prioritise your taxes being spent on fellow Americans because of your narrow world view.

Again we have this mentality to an extent in the UK. It manifests slightly differently and we have much higher levels of willingness to be involved with the rest of the world due to our history and more mixed society (yes even in very white areas - we travel abroad more).

Its fascinating to see DNA profiles of Americans from the coasts versus the mid west, the likes of Alabama, utah and then the south near the mexican border. It highlights migration and isolation patterns. I had no idea about how salt lake city is very English and Scandinavian in Ancestry. Or how Scottish and Irish other parts of the US and Canada are. Or how mixed the coasts are by comparison.

It is going to have an impact on attitudes. Not necessarily in terms of race, but in terms of values.

If you come from a family that emigrated for religious reasons from Europe and then became utterly devout, then you are much more likely to retain those values if the community your ancestors lived in was like minded and had little outside influence. Even for 200 years. I think I get back to the 1840s in about five or six generations. The sheer size of America is highly relevant here.

I don't think it's necessarily a hostility to change as such but is about the rate of change. Some places have changed much faster than others and haven't really considered how them dictating the pace is a problem. It's about being told what to do and how to think. Something that doesn't go down well on either side of this cultural divide.

There's the meme of the left running away whilst the centre has stayed still and is now perhaps closer to the right that's very apt here.

In his debate with Hilary he was so coked up it was embarrassing! Maybe that's why he kept wandering around the stage. The old Bolivian Marching Powder.

You have evidence for that, or just a suspicion, @Abhannmor ?

Those people in trailer parks might not have been helped by Trump. But they were better off under Trump. The cost of groceries going up under Biden has been significant. That makes people look back at Trump as being better for them.