Would you let your 10 and 13 year old on London to Leeds train alone?

[Secondtonaan]

Dds 10 (nearly 11!) and 13 are staying with family in London for a couple of days in the summer hols.

We live in Leeds and an option is them getting the train from Kings X together if my mum sees them on the train at the station and I meet them off the train at Leeds.

They're both v sensible and have phones with trackers on. Would you do this?! I think so but seems a long way.

Yes, I have and did with a 9 and 11 year old - they were great

Yes. If it's direct. I'd put them on the train one end and someone would pick them up the other.

Don't be mental

I would, but I'd put them in first class. There is usually a member of staff handing out food and drinks who can help if the train does break down.

But then in my family we tend to be sami nomadic. My first ever flight was to Australia and I was 16 and solo.

My uncle's friend and family moved to France, they would visit them on holiday and my cousin than friend's daughter would do train / ferry / train from rural France to Yorkshire.

I put a friend's son on the train at about 12 and his mother met him at the other end.

I'm really surprised and a bit shocked I led at how many say absolutely not. I wouldn't hesitate. If something goes wrong with the train I would expect them to listen to announcements, and prep them ahead to ask staff if unsure. Chances are they sit in their seats, watch their screens, eat snacks and enjoy their two hours of unsupervised time.

I travel that route a few times a year. It's quite busy and there always lots of families and people they'd be comfortable asking for input if needed.

I'm wondering why the levels of anxiety among other posters are so high about this.

My 2 DC have always enjoyed this sort of taste of independence.

On one journey my DDs did have an issue where the train broke down and they were all taken off.
She actually asked me get off the phone as the people in red were talking and I was interrupting!! Honestly they were fine. Followed staff instructions and made it home laughing about they'd done it all themselves.

I did this by myself aged about 12. I think 10 is a tad young

Could you meet them partway and dm accompany them from Kingsx to that point.

No, that line is massively unreliable.
I hace used it about once a month for 2 years, with probably a 25% success rate of arriving on time, on the same train I started on, on the same route. I have been delayed 0.5-3 hours; train has terminated early and I've had to take a different route from Doncaster or Newark; train has been cancelled at the very last minute (once after I was through the barriers at LKX).

If I was confident that I could put my dc on the train in Leeds and they'd arrive safely in London. 2 hours later with no incident, then I'd do it. I just don't have confidence in that line, and I wouldn't expect my dc I know what to do in event of "failure".

If they are used to travelling by train (accompanied) and feel ok about doing it, I would let them. If they are generally sensible kids.

My son asked for early independence in this way - he loves trains and was doing solo journeys within London starting at about 10.5

He's now 13.5 and is extremely confident, can get himself anywhere around the city no problem, deal with issues like transport breakdowns, and has travelled outside of London on the train.

If you let children have this freedom, it's a great learning experience and will set them up well for the future. Some of my son's friends are totally lost when it comes to navigating themselves - their parents have always done it for them.

I really don't understand the reluctance on this thread.

No. DH was left stranded in York on his way to King's X from Edinburgh when a storm blew in. No other trains running, no replacement buses. Just "get off, train terminates here". He ended up sharing a taxi with 3 strangers. Cost him £150. 5 hour journey took nearly 20.
Could your kids cope with that?

No I wouldn’t just because as a student when I was 19 some years ago now I had a fair few weirdo’s trying to talk to me on my train route from Preston to Southampton when I was at uni. So for that very reason it would be a definite no.

On Spanish long distance trains you can have them travel as unaccompanied minors, like on planes, don´t you have that option on U.K trains?

Personally, I wouldn't. Just because I think it unfair to make a 13 year old responsible for a 10 year old. My mum used to put me in that situation, and if anything went wrong, well, it was always my fault just because I was the eldest. Younger siblings falls and grazes their knee? My fault because I should have been looking out for them. They go to the park and get attacked by a dog? My fault for not pulling the (huge) dog off them! They decide to do something they have been told not to do by a parent and I end up with a serious injury leading to several operations and a mild but life long disability - my fault for not being able to stop them doing what they were doing. I think it's too much responsibility for your 13 year old.

There's a massive difference travelling around your home city to travelling somewhere hundreds of miles away.

No way would I even consider it. I don't feel safe myself on a train any more and I'm a well-seasoned solo traveller.

Too many variables: overcrowding in carriage, phone being dropped or stolen, random weirdos, annoying passengers, train breaking down, platform change, one of the dc getting upset... No.

I was joking about not letting me almost 16 year old though I wouldn’t love it, I wouldn’t stop her.

I disagree about the OP kids though as I feel it’s too young. It’s all very well encouraging them to be independent and it’s all good when everything is fine, but it’s if something unexpected happens. The train could break down in the middle of no where and they may have to get off etc…

There are also weirds about (as there was years ago) but in this day and age, other adults are often a bit apprehensive to get involved with situations that don’t involve them directly unless is overly obvious.

Where do you draw the line, I sometimes see young kids playing out late on when it’s getting dark. Chances are they’ll be fine but it’s still not something I would let my children do. Again it’s all fine, until it’s not!

Also the length of the journey is problematic because it would take a lot longer to get to then in an emergency.

Lastly, whilst there is no age where a child’s can be left alone or to babysit, under 16’s can’t be held responsible for younger children. If a 14 year old babysits and everything is ok then fine but if something went wrong, it would be the parents of said child that would be held responsible for allowing the 14 year old to take on the responsibility.

I think the 10yo is too young and the 13yo is too young to be responsible for a younger child.

I'd be worried about them knowing what to do in an unexpected situation - train breaks down, creepy man hassles them, seat reservations are cancelled, bomb threat etc.

Most train companies don’t allow it.

Exactly - it’s all ok and fine as long as it’s all ok and fine.

If something goes wrong or is unexpected then it changes your opinion, like it did for you and now of course you’d be much more apprehensive and rightly so, because you have experienced what happens when it doesn’t go to plan.

Assuming NT.

Of course. These are good ages to start taking on some responsibility for themselves and their siblings. Good idea to talk to them about how to deal with possible scenarios - generally call you.

Seeing all these people who wrap their children in cotton wool until they're mid-teens I am beginning to understand why there is such an outbreak of mental health problems in young people. It's hardly building a confident person if Mummy makes sure that they understand that she thinks they're incapable of going to the local shop at 7 or 8 years old, or travel on a train at 10 and 13. And that Mummy thinks that whatever they do Something Might Happen. It's also giving them the message that Mummy thinks they're incapable of dealing competently with the unexpected.

Just what age do some of you plan to let your NT children start to engage with normal activities? Or do you plan to throw them into life completely unprepared and non-confident at 18?

No, and reasons why not:

• both Leeds and Kings X stations have a large number of platforms that have (to an extent) different gates and escalators to enter and exit - Kings X especially. They can and do change platforms to others quite far away at the last minute. I've missed a Leeds train on this basis twice - change from platform 14 to 4 (where the hell is 4??). It's really easy to get on the wrong train if there is one on a platform (wrongly labelled or giving incorrect announcements on board relevant to the last journey) that is a few minutes before the one you want, but it's late, or whatever. I have seen grown adults have panic attacks in this situation, pacing the train and getting out asap (but an hour later)
• Ditto the removal of carriages on the services, very regular thing to do. Your seat is in coach D... you see on the day there is no coach D, but 2 coach Bs (both full, like the rest of the train). There are no seats together because of the packed service and cancellations. There's a football game, and many of the passengers are loud fans. The train staff have their hands very full already. What's the plan? Is it a safe one?

(Ah, apologies to Pizzaheart, who already made very similar points about the same route, gates, lastminute changes a few pages back).

How often does this happen to you?! Fierce dog in the carriage?

What if, what if, what if....
This is why we have 18 year olds who can not cope by themselves. And they are way more vulnerable as a result.

delays - phone mum on phone and tell her about the delay
line closures - these are planned in advance, but if something awful happens, phone mum
bus replacing train - rare not to be planned. Phone mum and get on bus.
arguement or fight in the carriage they are in - rare during the day, go to another carriage and ring mum
thefts - dont carry valuables, ring mum
losing their tickets - ring mum, when ticket inspector comes round tell them to ring mum and hand phone to her
arrest - why would kids be arrested? If your kids are likely to engage in criminal acts do not let them travel without an adult
accidents like broken finger or a banged head - unlikely, but ring mum. Even if you were there, you could only comfort them until you can get them to a hospital. But why would they break a finger sitting on a seat?
power cut - sit on train and phone mum
phones losing charge - take power bank
phones stolen, or dropped - take two phones and cheap ones. If anything goes badly wrong find ticket inspector.
fierce dog in the carriage - move carriage. This has never happened to me and I am old
someone vomiting in the carriage - look away or move carriage. What business is it of theirs?
someone calling social services or police and reporting child abandonment - social services and police would tell them to get lost or at most ask ticket inspector to ask if they were okay and if anyone was meeting them.
well intentioned do-gooders asking them load sof questions, giving them advise, which could be right or worng - tell them if anyone gives them advice to ring their mum.

Seriously I think some people must lead very small lives if they are this anxious.