Would you let your 10 and 13 year old on London to Leeds train alone?

[Secondtonaan]

Dds 10 (nearly 11!) and 13 are staying with family in London for a couple of days in the summer hols.

We live in Leeds and an option is them getting the train from Kings X together if my mum sees them on the train at the station and I meet them off the train at Leeds.

They're both v sensible and have phones with trackers on. Would you do this?! I think so but seems a long way.

@SmileyHappyPeopleInTheSun then you ring mum. In that kind of case if that happened to me as an adult with mobility issues, my DP would collect me by car. If it happened to our DCs would stay on the phone to them while they found a safe cafe to have a drink in the station in. And we would drive there. I would check in by phone every 30 minutes and tell them to ring if they were at all worried. I might even ask them to pass phone to counter staff to explain the situation so they know why two kids are sitting there drinking pop for so long.
You need to find solutions and help your kids find solutions.

My stepdaughter was once stopped by a member of a safeguarding team at Crewe station. They asked her to call me so I could confirm on the phone that we knew where she was and were meeting her. Apparently, they go looking for potential runaways and she caught their attention because she had her hood up. It was raining. She was annoyed that it caused her to miss her connection, but they took her to the first class waiting room to wait for the next one. In the end, my husband decided to go and pick her up to save her the onward journey.

Kids I knew doing that were either neglected and felt unloved so were easily manipulated. Or their parents were so strict that their kids could not be honest with them. My mum subtly guided me away from people who were trouble and towards decent safe friendships. I also had pocket money from a young age to spend.
I think for parents who care, setting up a situation where your kids can not be honest if something went wrong is a dangerous situation. I did have small things go wrong, but nothing large. For example a kid shoplift when I was with them - mum explained if they were caught I could get into trouble even if I had done nothing wrong and I should never go into a shop with them again. I had a lot of freedom but if anything was a bit of a goody two shoes. My brother was slightly wilder but his wild was jumping from tree branches or practising dangerous skateboard stunts.
You can not be with your kids all the time. You have to teach them how to avoid dangerous situations. Even now as an adult I am surprised when people I am with do not automatically move away from dodgy people in a crowd or train. I can spot them and I do just move. It is the best way to avoid any issues.

Yes. Mine have done Leeds to Edinburgh loads of times to meet my parents since that age. They can't get lost.
I used "find my friends" app on iPhone to track their progress. I phoned them when they were 10mins out from the station to tell them to pack their stuff up and get ready to jump off at Waverley and look for grandad at the barriers.

I did that very journey when I was that age and I would let my kids do it now.

fwiw my 14yo travelled across London, got train to Cornwall a few years ago. There was a cock up… train was late, terminated in Bristol, his mobile ran out of juice… right old saga. And he learnt a lot from the experience.

Don't drive or have family member who can drop everything and drive to do pick up - maybe Op or GM can drop everything and rive to some random point between Leeds and London I've no idea.

Personally I think it would be better to do route with them - this year - next and then let them do it themselves when a bit older and very familiar with the route ( miss it if Op says they are) .

However we've gone for gradual independence rather than chucking in deep end and crossing fingers though that may be because mine are ND and if they panicked and got upset the set back would be huge and take work and time to get past - which is probably less an issue for OP. They've still managed to grow up and know how to travel and get about themselves on public transport and mange upsets to point they don't get stressed when they happen now.

I get trains quite a lot and often do this route - there always seem to be issues. Breaking down, signal failure, getting cancelled at a station along the route and asked to get off, unpleasant passengers with transport police called to remove at next station. I may just be really unlucky but it is these events that would bother me for the kids. How well would they cope with the unexpected. More so the 10yr old.

11 year olds in London are taking trains and tubes to school everyday alone and dealing with tube delays, train cancellations etc, having to alter route etc.
Its amazing how quickly they get used to it. They're more familiar with all the transport apps and Google maps than I am.

I think the issue is that the brain structure changes hugely between 10 and 13, so the chances of a 10yo managing something unexpected sensibly is much less than a 13yo doing so.

Those examples seem easy and sensible, for someone with an adult brain. But I'm not sure that a younger dc would necessarily manage quite in the way you're describing.

My DS is on a day out in London with his friends today. I was all for it until I watched a Dispatches programme about street crime in London. Now I'm worried that his phone is going to get stolen. It has his train ticket on it! I've told him to write my dbro's phone number ( he lives in London and will be able to get to him before me) somewhere in case his phone is stolen. A lot of the answers here are ' ring mum', but people can't remember numbers anymore because of mobile phones, so phone goes, numbers go. I won't relax until he's on the train now!

You can't expect a 13 year old to be responsible for a 10 year old and you wouldn't send a 10 year old alone - so no.

@DramaLlamaBangBang writing down phone numbers is always a good idea. Also maybe a spare £20 note hidden somewhere? If your DC gets phone stolen with ticket on it, they should talk to train station staff.

@Stompythedinosaur whatever age your DCs are, you coach them what to do if it goes wrong. On a train journey where there is an adult at either end it is either ring mum, move seats and ring mum, or tell ticket inspector about issue.
I would probably give them an extra very cheap phone with my number on it that I would tell them to hide away, just in case. Very unlikely to need it, but just in case. Most people have track phone enabled anyway.

There's a huge difference between 10 and 16 though isn't there. They're worlds apart.

I never went further than my local town before going to uni 200 miles away - I was fine. DS never got the bus anywhere but school, and then got the bus and train to a week long course 50 miles away while we were abroad at 17.

If the people you work with can't travel places they don't know then that is probably because they suffer with anxiety, not because their parents didn't stick them on a train at 10.

Research suggests that GAD (for example)is likely to be caused by one or a combination of:
the genes you inherit from your parents
having a history of stressful or traumatic experiences, such as domestic violence, child abuse or bullying
having a painful long-term health condition, such as arthritis
having a history of drug or alcohol misuse

My daughter is only 4 but we were at a festival recently and they were handing out bands like this so parents could write their names and numbers on them and attach them to their children. If it's not too desperately uncool, DS might be willing to wear one.

www.amazon.co.uk/LIKED-Wristbands-Festival-Nightclubs-Waterparks/dp/B0B82CWK8Y/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?adgrpid=57342046710&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.O0TduWOW8bRyfIAbzrvQJ4L9QelQGZzDbL6wS9V8r94YJjZxrzhOvQHTS5cLVQJHjh2pOyempBPFuLHN55hxh63FLrcwu7ryPmMPdyRlVvt-Ob7_rvBzCnrU0QUbgEDctZ8tRAAkOs7Bj_srMeyCr1Bg0gNJ3nhcqjElFlx-TTXZ-0NGq0qBsJNF0t3yV9ijWwUbZnLPveywy1Otvh42dMy-PXbP2nVgZf2JbKR65aOkd2M5eJ2N_SsXEDcBX_4piwZ2CKS4aQdMCNMCpnbUwqrSmuNXzoIEHLgvWR-JVpU.zDXktHI2R1pmRzkVsiCqBGtVL1NxtTXcnBbME0Qx1hw&dib_tag=se&hvadid=259047045780&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=1007206&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=3379909372016303550&hvtargid=kwd-298055585415&hydadcr=28152_1724844&keywords=paper+wrist+bands&qid=1721316008&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1

Re teaching independence; we interviewed a woman, mid 20s, for a finance admin role. The position involved very occasional pre-planned travel to the nearest big city, which is a 40 minute direct train journey.

She mentioned that she would be nervous and uncertain about doing this. She asked if her manager could accompany her.

She didn’t get the job.

You could always post them....

www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/brief-history-children-sent-through-mail-180959372/

😂

When my dc were little they used to wear a wristband with my phone number on it in case they got lost...now they're older I scribble down my number and stick it in their bag if they go out without me.

Yes I gave him a tenner and he has a kids debit card thing pre loaded. He's with his friends too, but that programme was probably a stupid thing to watch!

There's a huge difference between 10 and 16 though isn't there. They're worlds apart

Well yes of course there is. Which is why we have been discussing gradual independence. If you don't start learning how to do things at some point then at 16 you wont be competent, confident, or resilient to do these things.

And in the OP's case the 10 year old is travelling with a 13 year old. For some 10 and 13 year olds they will be mature and sensible enough to manage a direct train journey with an adult seeing them on and picking them up at to other end. And some might need to be a little older.

Interesting how many people do know the route well and say no. And bring up very similar experiences.
To those thinking that these observations are over fussy, rare, a good move for resilience, simply need a platform ticket, car, biddable relative, or phone for a 10 year old and 13 year old to solve on the spot somewhere outside Newark, great.

I've been navigating my way by train in England (this route and many multi train ones that take about 4-5hrs) since I was 13, would take myself off and back to university most times by train, have commuted to various workplaces for a long time, and then done long distance including crossing London with a baby in a pram (often a mix of replacement buses and train). Then did a lot of the same in Europe - much more easily and cheaply. I have no issue with my DC, 13, going on other routes that have stations that are a bit simpler and offer a lot more reliability in terms of service, but would wait a year or 2 in this scenario.

Yes I used to write my phone number on thrir arms when mine were little but it's too embarrassing to do that now! Hopefully he's written down the numbers. He's been at my mums in London for a couple of days but has alwsys been with her or my sil, then met up with friends then heading home today.

@Ormally it is not 4-5 hours. It is just over 2 hours to 2.5 hours. You get the direct train. Nobody would advise OP gets the kids to change, and I would not as an adult either. I have no idea where you are getting 4-5 hours from.

Yes! In daylight and off peak times especially, they'll have an adventure and feel really grown up. Make sure they know that they must stick together, keep a close watch on their belongings and not get off the train until Leeds (unless told to by the guard in an emergency).

Ensure they both have chargers, phones, snacks and headphones so they don't annoy other travellers and that they know what to do if there's an issue or delay. You can track the train so you'll see when it left and for most if the journey they'll have signal or wifi and be able to message you.

At Leeds you'll be able to stand next to the barrier and see them coming off the train.

And nobody is asking these kids to navigate the stations by themselves. They will at worst be taken to the barrier and met at the barrier. But more likely put on the train and met at the train. Leeds is not a difficult station, neither is London. Birmingham is a difficult station to navigate.