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Thread 2. Starmer, return of the Labour government

1000 replies

L1ttledrummergirl · 12/07/2024 01:24

Yes, lame but the last thread was nearly full.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
108
Piggywaspushed · 24/07/2024 10:52

i think its rather silly to say it would lift all these children out of poverty.

Even though highly regarded, non political economists have said it will??

SerendipityJane · 24/07/2024 10:53

cardibach · 24/07/2024 10:41

I wonder if all the stuff about Cooper finding spare money secretly committed to Rwanda but not disclosed is the beginnings of a means to do this?

I can only speculate from what I would have done in the situation Labour were in. As should be apparent to even the more idea-resistant person (briefly looks at current threads and realises they appear to have gone on holiday) despite the almost softly softly lead up to the election, Labour have been doing a fucktonne under the radar. Presumably with paper and pen, locked away each night and peoples bags being searched on entry and exit. Although given the clusterfuck the Tories descended into at the end, just joined up writing would have been enough.

Part of that process - bearing in mind the shadow Cabinet had access to more than you and I - would have been to triangulate where some money might be hiding. Maybe not precise amounts, but enough of an idea such that by 5pm on 5th July the new government could give the civil service a shopping list of identified projects and say "we want the full fat figures now we are in charge".

This process will continue - it must be mammoth. And as it does, it would be helpful to Labour to keep the public updated with it's findings. Because I don't think the £700million/£10billion on Rwanda is isolated. It may not even be the tip of the iceberg.

With that, the coffers can be boosted with the most pleasant of things. Not unfunded spending a la Truss. But unallocated spend.

And if the prep has gone right. If the Gods are with is, then that will feed into a slowly rising growth chart. And each point on that chart can be invested

I'm not an idiot. Shit happens and things are rarely pure and simple. I am sure U will be disappointed and critical too in the coming years. But nowhere near as angry as I have become at the revolting spectacle of a Tory government shovelling money to it's mates while babies starve to death.

Crikeyalmighty · 24/07/2024 10:54

@Alexandra2001 yep and I want stuff that benefits 'everyone' not just a particular demographic - we have built resentment partly because some people who are not high earning and often with no kids, singles, couples, etc but not eligible for any benefits or in prime position for social housing feel like they have been totally stuffed - and as you know I'm not Tory - but I don't think we can constantly fixate on low earners with children - as I said on my previous post it's not all about what's going in- some of it is about what's going out

cardibach · 24/07/2024 10:55

Bang on @SerendipityJane

SerendipityJane · 24/07/2024 10:56

If Labour is going to govern by surveys, it would be rejoining the single market and customs union by the weekend.

Piggywaspushed · 24/07/2024 11:00

That's as may be but I was responding to an assertion that the general public approved of the cap, is all.

Crikeyalmighty · 24/07/2024 11:04

@SerendipityJane I think we think pretty alike- I'm afraid I'm not for appeasing the far left many of whom seem in airy fairy land and I can tell most have never worked in a commercial business- I do think many far left are naive about poverty too - it's simply not always about how much is coming in- (sometimes is but not always) it can be feckless spending, shitloads of debt, one person controlling access to money - inability to find affordable housing-parents prioritising other stuff- drink/drugs/gamblingcetc - it isn't just about giving parents more cash.

Those situations are almost unsolvable to be honest, people are people- you could give some people £2k a week and they would still spend it - the best you can do is help the children directly with education- decent school meals ) and I'm pro good quality and free for all) healthcare at school ( I'm in favour of school nurses mental and physical) and prompt social services intervention when needed plus far more decent social housing .

Crikeyalmighty · 24/07/2024 11:05

@SerendipityJane yep-

SerendipityJane · 24/07/2024 11:05

Had a quick scan of my pushed news sources, and nary a squeak about this. Bigger fish to fry, I guess. I see Musk has reverse ferreted on supporting Trump. I mean who wants a doddery old man as President ?

SerendipityJane · 24/07/2024 11:06

I'm not for appeasing the far left many of whom seem in airy fairy land

So no change in 45 years then.

Alexandra2001 · 24/07/2024 11:14

Piggywaspushed · 24/07/2024 11:00

That's as may be but I was responding to an assertion that the general public approved of the cap, is all.

There is support for keeping the cap across almost all voting and social groups, including Labour voters, who back it by 50% to 38%. The only exception is among 18-24 year olds, only a third (32%) of whom think the cap should be kept, with nearly half (46%) opposing it (YouGov) 5 days ago.

I think, unless Labour address, and quickly, some glaring wrongs in this country, then the electorate will vote for something completely different & it won't be the Tories either.

IClaudine · 24/07/2024 11:15

Piggywaspushed · 24/07/2024 10:50

I thought surveys showed it wasn't popular?

Anyway to me, it reveals the true pot stirrers in the party- and that's not necessarily the ones who voted against because everyone knows those. There are others trying to undermine Starmer rather less boldly . I think we know who I mean.

I don't know who you mean!

CassieMaddox · 24/07/2024 11:16

SerendipityJane · 24/07/2024 10:38

I am feeling that the cap will be lifted without warning one day. "When the time is ready" is a powerful tool used correctly. Obviously there would be a fanfare as it would represent a vindication of The Plan. But sudden enough that a lot of critics will be taken by surprise. And 7 newly independent MPs will look rather silly.

"Under promise. Over deliver". Or was I the only one with ears open and brain running at the same time ?

I think so too. Every interview I've heard has been consistent that they don't want to keep the cap but can't afford to scrap it....yet.
That's why I think rebelling at the KS was ridiculous and performative of them. When I saw MacDonnell on the list I was 🙄

BIossomtoes · 24/07/2024 11:18

I sometimes wonder if McDonnell is a secret Tory.

Piggywaspushed · 24/07/2024 11:18

Alexandra2001 · 24/07/2024 11:14

There is support for keeping the cap across almost all voting and social groups, including Labour voters, who back it by 50% to 38%. The only exception is among 18-24 year olds, only a third (32%) of whom think the cap should be kept, with nearly half (46%) opposing it (YouGov) 5 days ago.

I think, unless Labour address, and quickly, some glaring wrongs in this country, then the electorate will vote for something completely different & it won't be the Tories either.

Interesting. Different from others I have come across.

Of course, no one actually understands it!

Piggywaspushed · 24/07/2024 11:19

IClaudine · 24/07/2024 11:15

I don't know who you mean!

Really?

CassieMaddox · 24/07/2024 11:19

SerendipityJane · 24/07/2024 11:05

Had a quick scan of my pushed news sources, and nary a squeak about this. Bigger fish to fry, I guess. I see Musk has reverse ferreted on supporting Trump. I mean who wants a doddery old man as President ?

Has he??

Alexandra2001 · 24/07/2024 11:20

I'll be really pissed off if they lift it.

Far more bigger issues for children of the least well off that this money could be spent on.

Piggywaspushed · 24/07/2024 11:20

BIossomtoes · 24/07/2024 11:18

I sometimes wonder if McDonnell is a secret Tory.

I don't think he's a secret anything. He's not capable of secrecy.

CassieMaddox · 24/07/2024 11:21

BIossomtoes · 24/07/2024 11:18

I sometimes wonder if McDonnell is a secret Tory.

I think he's like Lee Andersin. So far left he's a risk of going far right 😂

SerendipityJane · 24/07/2024 11:23

Alexandra2001 · 24/07/2024 11:20

I'll be really pissed off if they lift it.

Far more bigger issues for children of the least well off that this money could be spent on.

I mean this kindly, but it's not all about you.

cardibach · 24/07/2024 11:29

Alexandra2001 · 24/07/2024 11:14

There is support for keeping the cap across almost all voting and social groups, including Labour voters, who back it by 50% to 38%. The only exception is among 18-24 year olds, only a third (32%) of whom think the cap should be kept, with nearly half (46%) opposing it (YouGov) 5 days ago.

I think, unless Labour address, and quickly, some glaring wrongs in this country, then the electorate will vote for something completely different & it won't be the Tories either.

But they are addressing things quickly. They just can’t address all the things at once.

IClaudine · 24/07/2024 11:34

Piggywaspushed · 24/07/2024 11:19

Really?

Honestly! If you don't mean one of the 7 suspended I don't know who you mean? Sorry if being thick.

IClaudine · 24/07/2024 11:34

IClaudine · 24/07/2024 11:34

Honestly! If you don't mean one of the 7 suspended I don't know who you mean? Sorry if being thick.

Unless you mean people no longer in the party? With the initials JC?

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