Thread 2. Starmer, return of the Labour government

[L1ttledrummergirl]

Yes, lame but the last thread was nearly full.

So if the deal can’t be renegotiated, what is it you are ‘disappointed’ they aren’t doing? Rejoining in one term is impossible.
Also I think the speed and nature of developments on all fronts since the election show that ‘Labour lack any sort of vision’ is nonsense.

I think a steady rapprochement methodology is the only option we have. The previous government fucked relations with the EU so comprehensively that it will take a long time before they trust us to be honest brokers again.

Ummmm Labour have ruled out ANY rejoin of the SM and CU, over multiple parliaments, they earlier ruled out amendments to FOM too.

What vision do Labour have? plans to tax the wealthy? council tax re banding? dentistry? and no, extra so called emg appointments isn't whats required either, people need courses of treatment, not a fucking extraction... any vision to reduce taxation on ordinary working people who are just being hammered in all directions atm.

The British Govt has totally changed, there is no reason for the EU not to trust us but so far, we are not offering them anything.

Dumb and Dumber springs to mind, just somewhat older.

Last Days of Rome. The barbarians are through the gates and those two will be fighting each other over the crown in another 12 months. Bloody hell. It really is like a cheap disaster movie.

There might be a few small "quick wins" that Labour could work on with the EU, without really reopening the negotiations (about which the EU has understandably said GTF we [the EU] now have more pressing priorities).

For example, making it easier for musicians and their instruments etc to tour.

I believe the initial first steps to rebuilding trust with the EU are freedom of movement for cultural purposes, reciprocal medical needs, strengthening alliances for stronger security. All those are achievable and quite straightforward. In the case for rejoining in some sort of way, it's better to start rebuilding trust with easier to achieve mutually agreeable targets.

You can be as disappointed as you like. No skin off my nose.

But the reality is there is fuck all use any UK political party promising anything involving closer ties with the EU until the UK has actually implemented what it agreed under Boris. No matter how shit it was. And all credit to Labour for refusing to lie about it, or make fantastical promises it would be unable to deliver.

E2A: There is simply no way Boris deal can be revisited. It's done. That ship has sailed. The UKs job is to make it work as it is, and then - from a position of demonstrating good faith - look towards a new deal.

I think there's also a slow job to do reassuring the Brexaloons, demonstrating the benefits of the EU and slowly moving the Overton window back so there is no longer an allergic reaction to any mention of the words customs union.

I'm still hopeful that Labour will do this and then have a referendum on some form of closer relationship, once its clear what can work. But what do I know. I've been proved wrong on Brexit on multiple occasions (TM triggering article 50 for example)

I think there's also a slow job to do reassuring the Brexaloons,

They haven't realised yet, but their views, wants and wishes are fading into the rear view mirror. In 4 years time, they will have even less agency than they have now.

Well, if I guess you don’t want to see positive moves you won’t 🤷‍♀️
Compare the last 14 days with the previous 14 years.
They absolutely had to rule out rejoining or the Tories would have had a weapon to use and it would have been a rerun of 2019. They clearly want a closer relationship and realistically that’s all they can get anyway. We need to be stable for more than a fortnight before the EU trust us, especially with Farage and his mob actually in Parliament.

That's along the same lines I was thinking

I think this too, but the art is to pretend we haven't noticed. Otherwise that frog facedfucker farage will wind all the brexaloons up again

No more referendums.

Ever.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/rishi-sunak-mass-strike-tory-mp-snap-election-b2580559.html

Same, starting slowly with the cultural medical & security by strengthening those issues hopefully other possibilities will emerge we can hope.

Well the UK, not including Northern Ireland, is a kingdom of countries that doesn't take well to referendums, and I can't for the life of me understand why. Switzerland for example has many referendums.

I think eventually the potential for economic growth by signing up to some better terms customs union/single market/rejoin will be too big a lure to ignore. 🤞

Reinstate the Vet agreement for food standards (we should be aiming for higher standards anyway), and animal vaccinations.

Better food quality,
Fewer border checks
Easier to take pets on holiday.

Haven't read the full thread and tbh I am too exhausted to even try the last one so maybe it's been mentioned previously.

I saw a clip yesterday of Kier Starmer saying he won't name his children to allow them privacy, anybody else find this particularly nice? Like a decent family man.

Granted I am too young to remember many previous PMs and I definitely didn't have an interest in politics until the last couple of years so maybe the others did this too.

The Veterinary agreement and other such trade boosting deals, requires oversight by the ECJ, which Starmer has ruled out.

So how does he get around that one?

I fully understand that Labour couldn't risk a re run of the Brexit 2019 GE but they've won now.....

the Bojo deal can be revisited in 2025/26, it is not the only deal forever and ever, thats ridiculous.

I suspect one more referendum will be required, at least in Scotland

So don't say ever

Plus under the GFA, isn't there a right to a border poll a referendum by another name if/when the Secretary of State for NI thinks that there is evidence that public opinion in the region has shifted in favour of constitutional change?

Having said that, if referendums are going to be used (and I agree, they're a blunt tool that can be easily manipulated, especially with electorates that aren't used to them ), especially on major constitutional issues, there needs to be an independent commission/organisation that fact checks (as I believe is the case in Ireland) and an Electoral Commission/Overseeing Body that actually has teeth Lies on both "sides" need to be shut down immediately - not some mealy mouthed "oops we got that wrong" some time after the event Plus, for constitutional issues, super majorities for a decision (eg 60:40) should be pre-determined.

King's speech tomorrow

Yes. Also the story about Jeremy Hunt's children leaving Starmer's children a note about how to adjust to live in number 11.

I think Starmer is genuinely just a decent man and hopefully it will trickle down into standards and actions more generally.

On that note I was just reading this:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/kemi-badenoch-conservative-party-robert-jenrick-rishi-sunak-tom-tugendhat-b1170582.html

Robert Jenrick is the grassroots Tories second favourite after Badenoch. Compare and contrast styles.

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/new-british-trade-minister-hopeful-some-eu-barriers-can-be-removed-2024-07-16/