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There should be the death penalty for Karl Clifford and those like him

395 replies

HermioneWeasley · 10/07/2024 18:25

There is no doubt he did it. No case of mistaken identity. He’s taken 3 lives. He should be executed.

OP posts:
OhHelloMiss · 10/07/2024 20:24

So who gets employed as as executioner then?

It's all so flippant

Podcast84 · 10/07/2024 20:25

Did he deliberately wait till the husband/father was out of the house so he could target the women? How cowardly

moonlightwatch · 10/07/2024 20:26

Maaate · 10/07/2024 20:22

I do love how the "execute them if it's 100%" definite they did it" mob continually show their complete ignorance of how murder convictions are actually achieved 🙄

Guessing but this comment you know? Work in this industry, Soo please share your knowledge.

EsmaCannonball · 10/07/2024 20:26

I'm in the position of thinking that the state should not have the power to murder its citizens and, at the same time, not losing any sleep over the idea of murderers being killed. I'm ok with bad things happening to bad people but I don't trust the state to have that power.

I'm generally a pretty left-leaning person until it comes to the issue of law and order. It's probably because I become from a deprived and difficult background and I know that crime disproportionately impacts the poorest and most vulnerable in society and that deprivation alone isn't enough to make someone into a criminal, it's usually deprivation and being a nasty little shitbag.

IMO, the reason that prison doesn't work in this country is because criminals know the police won't catch them, the CPS won't prosecute them and a judge won't send them to prison. The amount of crimes a criminal can get away with before even getting a whiff of incarceration is huge, making the risk eminently worth it.

Once in prison the worst offenders have the easiest time and still get early release even if they have committed multiple crimes while locked up. Even the most serious offenders get sent to open prisons after serving a portion of their sentence. We are told that prison is sheer misery for men accused of sex crimes against women and children but then read about Levi Bellfield planning to get married or Jordan McSweeney, the murderer of Zara Aleena, having sex with a female prison worker.

I honestly believe that the trade for men such as Kyle Clifford, Bellfield and McSweeney being allowed to live should be genuine whole life sentences with the modern equivalent of hard labour, a basic diet and no privileges in cells. A prison system where the prisoners get televisions or gaming consoles because otherwise they might riot is a prison system that has allowed the prisoners to be in charge. The principle of justice and the sheer weight of the crime having some bearing on the fate of the criminal seems to have got lost along the way.

TheShellBeach · 10/07/2024 20:26

HermioneWeasley · 10/07/2024 20:21

@thinkhorsesnotzebra

I don’t think him being alive serves any purpose. There is no justice, no peace for the bereaved husband and father, two young women had their whole lives ahead of them. Why should he get to live in any way?

Because he'll have an awful life in prison.
I used to work in one.

MrsTerryPratchett · 10/07/2024 20:27

Podcast84 · 10/07/2024 20:19

Yes, I agree. If I thought he would live a miserable life in prison then I would prefer him to just have a whole life tariff, but it will probably just be like living in a youth club, you get to play cards, pool, watch TV, play football in the yard, get your 3 meals a day and not have to worry about paying a mortgage etc so no, he doesn't deserve a life like that. He deserves to die for what he did.

I've spent a lot of time in prisons, working and volunteering. They are horrible places. But no, they aren't designed to torture prisoners. The deprivation of liberty is the punishment. If people were tortured with solitary and no recreation, prison guards would be in so much danger, more than now. They would also be traumatised.

People always have opinions on prison and I encourage people to leave that to people with direct experience.

OhHelloMiss · 10/07/2024 20:29

They pay rent for their tvs and have to purchase their own Xbox

Don't make out it's all handed to them to keep them compliant

Podcast84 · 10/07/2024 20:30

@SharonEllis I do , actually, a member of my family was in prison and was able to do a degree there.

OhHelloMiss · 10/07/2024 20:30

If people were tortured with solitary and no recreation, prison guards would be in so much danger, more than now. They would also be

Thankyou!

moonlightwatch · 10/07/2024 20:32

wordler · 10/07/2024 20:23

For those pro the death penalty would you be prepared to do it yourself?

Are you prepared to become a killer to punish a killer?

To be honest with you yes I could. Now can I ask a question, do you not think capital punishment was ok for the likes of John gacy? The man who murdered multiple men and buried them under his house? Are you saying that this was cruel and not ok to do with the families of those men were put through the grim details of what that monster did? He even didn't show one ounce of remorse either and even made a shitty comment to everyone who watched him die. That is pure evil and pure scum and he would never ever have changed. He did not care about the crimes he committed same as ted bundy, rose west, Fred west, Ian Brady, Ian Huntley the list goes on. People say it's inhumane to take a life but look at the hideous crime they have been put away for?

NecessaryNC24 · 10/07/2024 20:33

I don't believe in the DP but I do
In slow prolonged torture for people like that, though obvs that's not an option in these enlightened times.

I've been reading about the Chris Watts case recently and I feel like that about him. He seems to have got off extremely lightly: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wattsfamilyy_murders

I would like to see some Biblical-style vengeance.

🤷🏻‍♀️.

Maaate · 10/07/2024 20:34

moonlightwatch · 10/07/2024 20:26

Guessing but this comment you know? Work in this industry, Soo please share your knowledge.

That to convict for murder it has to be proven beyond all reasonable doubt that they did it.

Hence why the CPS may jointly charge with manslaughter at the same time to prevent a total acquittal if there's a possibility that the case cannot be proven beyond all reasonable doubt.

OhHelloMiss · 10/07/2024 20:34

I would like to see some Biblical-style vengeance.

Would you now? Perhaps you can expand on that? Are you expecting myself and my colleagues to dish that out for you then?

RickyGervaislovesdogs · 10/07/2024 20:35

Yes.

But not before we harvest the organs, humanely of course. So it would be like having a general anaesthetic and totally painless. Win~Win.
Why feed, clothe, attempt to rehabilitate and amuse him for life? I doubt he even wants that to be honest. 🤷🏼‍♀️

Circe7 · 10/07/2024 20:36

You only have to look at the US to see that reinstating the death penalty would be a really bad idea.

It is hugely expensive, the US struggles to actually kill people (partly as doctors won’t perform executions and pharma companies won’t supply their drugs) and they therefore botch executions and sometimes torture people and despite the number of appeals etc. they still manage to execute people who turn out to be innocent.

There’s no legal process in the UK to distinguish between “guilty enough to go to prison” and “100% guilty”. It would be really problematic to introduce this. So we probably would end up executing innocent people occasionally. In the US the innocent people who are executed tend to be black and poor.

Maaate · 10/07/2024 20:37

Oh my god, this is getting more batshit bonkers now. Harvesting organs 🙄🤣

MrsTerryPratchett · 10/07/2024 20:38

OhHelloMiss · 10/07/2024 20:34

I would like to see some Biblical-style vengeance.

Would you now? Perhaps you can expand on that? Are you expecting myself and my colleagues to dish that out for you then?

I wish people would remember that all the whole life tariffs and biblical vengeance involve prison staff being involved.

The 'good behaviour' and gaining some level of additional recreation are so important to controlling violence and trauma in prison.

I've actually spent some time in a prison in a different country and it had bees and a contemplation circle and pottery and actually houses to live in. I've never felt safer in a prison. And this was for very serious offenders. But they know that one issue, and they may be transferred.

wordler · 10/07/2024 20:39

moonlightwatch · 10/07/2024 20:32

To be honest with you yes I could. Now can I ask a question, do you not think capital punishment was ok for the likes of John gacy? The man who murdered multiple men and buried them under his house? Are you saying that this was cruel and not ok to do with the families of those men were put through the grim details of what that monster did? He even didn't show one ounce of remorse either and even made a shitty comment to everyone who watched him die. That is pure evil and pure scum and he would never ever have changed. He did not care about the crimes he committed same as ted bundy, rose west, Fred west, Ian Brady, Ian Huntley the list goes on. People say it's inhumane to take a life but look at the hideous crime they have been put away for?

I believe deliberately killing a human being is wrong.

Caveat for humane euthanasia with full informed consent of the person who wants to die.

Of course it feels as though people who do these evil things to others should be made to suffer. Don’t deserve to go on living etc.

But killing to punish killing is still wrong.

Removing them from society for the rest of their lives is the only way not to compound a terrible act with another.

MrsSkylerWhite · 10/07/2024 20:39

I've actually spent some time in a prison in a different country and it had bees ….

As a prisoner or a visitor/official? (I’m just nosey, sorry!)

NecessaryNC24 · 10/07/2024 20:40

OhHelloMiss · 10/07/2024 20:34

I would like to see some Biblical-style vengeance.

Would you now? Perhaps you can expand on that? Are you expecting myself and my colleagues to dish that out for you then?

What 😂

Scammersarescum · 10/07/2024 20:40

No.

Murder is wrong. In all instances, including by the state.

He should serve a whole life tariff or three life sentences but run consecutively.

NecessaryNC24 · 10/07/2024 20:43

Yes I'm sure he'll suffer with sky tv, 3 meals a day and love letters from the deluded ones...

MrsTerryPratchett · 10/07/2024 20:44

MrsSkylerWhite · 10/07/2024 20:39

I've actually spent some time in a prison in a different country and it had bees ….

As a prisoner or a visitor/official? (I’m just nosey, sorry!)

I was teaching. A life-skills course. I also volunteered (for a few months) as a tourist in youth corrections in another country. In the UK I spent time in prisons as a housing liaison.

It's important to house and teach offenders so you give them the best chance of not re-offending. I used to be a hang-em-high person. But plans don't survive contact with the enemy.

moonlightwatch · 10/07/2024 20:45

NecessaryNC24 · 10/07/2024 20:43

Yes I'm sure he'll suffer with sky tv, 3 meals a day and love letters from the deluded ones...

Yep exactly! Not really a punishment hey? 🙄

ladygindiva · 10/07/2024 20:45

WilmaFlintstone1 · 10/07/2024 18:32

They’ve got him, keep him alive and let him get the shit kicked out of him in prison.

This.