There should be the death penalty for Karl Clifford and those like him

[HermioneWeasley]

There is no doubt he did it. No case of mistaken identity. He’s taken 3 lives. He should be executed.

no just one innoent person an its gone too far we dont have tthe right to take a life

No but if someone killed someone I loved I might think differently

You mean police should murper a SUSPECT without any due proces? In other words summary execution? Are you insane?

If I or one of my family were a victim of something like this, I would want the perpetrator locked up. Death is the "easy" way out. I would rather know the person would spend decades in prison until eventually dying, never having known freedom again.

Much is made of prisoners having game consoles or all their food provided etc. I've been on prison wings as part of my job in the past. What struck me were the little things. No freedom to do something simple like take a bath or make yourself some cheese on toast or go and sit in your garden. Silly little things we all take for granted. Then there's the total lack of any privacy. Before you even get onto the fact that you've lost your freedom.

I've thought about it in the past and to a degree I could handle the "locked up" part of it. What I couldn't handle would be the total loss of autonomy in my living environment. That's the part that would break me. Having a games console wouldn't change that!

No - if we agree that deliberately killing another human being is wrong - it’s wrong for any reason.

It happened to someone I know - I knew this family

But no not life , they'd not have wanted that either

I completely disagree. Capital punishment makes my blood run cold. It just feels totally and utterly wrong to me.

It does if there’s little debate. The madness of the US system doesn’t have to be recreated. So umpteenth time assumption on a non existent system.

Clearly impossible to implement as too many shades of grey and bleeding heart liberals. .. of which I am usually one. This is one area where I’d just dispatch the murderous animals.

I’m so sorry. No words seem adequate.

I’m on the fence about capital punishment

Part of me completely agrees with it why should this vermin who can never in my opinion be rehabilitated, and why should I pay via my taxes for this vermin to continue living a cushy life in prison and another part thinks letting the state decide based on what a bunch of twats they are isn’t a good idea

However I find our legal and prison system a complete and utter fucking joke 🤷‍♀️

I didn’t say that, please read my post properly. I said women who abuse their children by severe neglect.

Emotionally and mentally abuse their children.

Ones basically who beat their children black and blue.

I think they should not be allowed to have more kids because they just keep popping them out and they get put in the care system. I know of someone who does this and I find is really upsetting. Why would you keep getting pregnant knowing social are going to take that baby the second they are born. It’s just cruel 😔

I haven't been following the news and after Googling, thought OP with being pretty harsh to Karl Clifford. He doesn't sound very nice but the death penalty for causing a public nuisance is quite extreme.

With regard to Kyle Clifford...no. You don't demonstrate that killing is wrong by killing.

@Rainbowsponge
I find it quite amusing when people balk at how much public sector 'services' cost. Of course it will cost a lot to imprison someone. We're paying for their bed and board, but also their legal fees, any rehabilitation they might have, any appeals process they might go through and everything else.
But what I also find assuming about posts like yours is that it's wildly off. It costs around £50k per prisoner. That seems worryingly cheap to me. No wonder our prisons are in a state.

Not much if you really want to keep the bills down. It’s the legal drama that costs, not the electricity.

No. He will probably live another 60 years. Better he spends every one locked up. Imagine never being able to just go for a walk, meet with your mates, have a meaningful relationship, go to the beach, go to a nice restaurant etc. whole life tariff after a fair trial is far more appropriate imo.

He will hopefully get some jail justice as well. I imagine someone might like to repeat what happened to that pedophile in prison fairly recently.

He knows he’s going to be in prison until he’s at least 70. He never knows when the next attack is coming from other prisoners. He’s tried to kill himself more than once. I’d rather he was alive to suffer.

You move in some very strange circles - habitual criminals and serial child abusers.

I was actually trying to think of how to explain that and you have done it so clearly and succinctly.

@DontBiteTheCat
Rehabilitation also really depends on the types of crime/types of criminal. I think people take success stories about rehabilitation for some criminals and think it applies everywhere.
e.g. a young man who gets involved in knife crime. He started carrying a knife because he was scared BUT he made a conscious decision that the best thing to do to deal with that fear/sense of threat was to carry a knife. If they can (be helped to) acknowledge that thought process, and see the flaws in it they have a good chance of carrying on down a good path and helping others.
Versus - a young man who was depressed and under a lot of pressure and decided to deal with that pressure by raping a child. He is unlikely to ever admit that he made a conscious decision to do that because that would mean admitting his own extreme selfishness. Although he will talk about his feelings till the cows come home (because it distracts attention from his thought process).
Likewise a man who feels abandoned and sad/angry when his girlfriend leaves and decides to deal with that by murdering her and her family. He might talk about what a dark place he was in, or how he lost control, but he is unlikely to truly admit that he as a fully functioning adult choose to deal with his feelings by destroying the lives of others. (obviously hypothetical, Im not saying this is the case for Karl Clifford)

It seems to be a pattern now that success stories about rehabilitation of young offenders, or about restorative justice working in some cases are used to justify treating truly abusive people with kid gloves. Its not the same. There is such an extreme level of selfishness in the last two examples I gave that I don't think rehabilitation is likely. But I don't think its comfortable to admit it because that would mean acknowledging that evil exist.

History proves time and time again that capital punishment has never worked. Nor has it stopped anyone commiting murder.

No, as others have already said a whole life tarrif which means never being released. He can spend every single day of his no doubt long and hopefully wretched existence in jail knowing that he is detested and loathed.

Depends on his character as to how he will get on in prison

I talk to prisoners on the wings all day long

Some can 'do' prison some can't. Many get on well due to family support in the outside. It all depends. He's tried to take his life so he may continue down that path in custody, obvs, we put in measures to prevent that

The PlayStation/xbox....they buy their own from an approved supplier, we don't give them to them

I am not 100% on capital punishment but the thing is these people show time and again they are evil, no use to society, probably don't give a shit about bring in prison because they are not normal. They don't think normally. Therefore I come back to what is the point of them? I'd rather we use that boat/barge they put the immigrants on for prisoners, patrol it with security boats and just send food out to them by drone No other engagement. The evil bastards can all rot together.

Truly horrific, but I don’t agree with the death penalty under any circumstances and never will.