Toilet training and high anxiety - how schools are changing

[DeedlessIndeed]

Apologies if there is another thread on this, but I read this BBC article at the weekend and it's really stuck with me.

What on earth is happening to a percentage of young children that the schools are having to step in on such a large scale?

In the article it states that 8 out of 27 children starting school in September weren't toilet trained. Some didn't have adequate communication skills such as being able to ask for a drink.

SEN aside, does anyone know what is contributing to this delay in development? What can parents of very young children do to ensure that their child is meeting their developmental milestones?

And also, what resource does this take away from actual teaching in the old fashioned sense. What impact does this have on other children in these classes?

For context, my first baby is due in a couple of weeks so I've no idea on the realities of raising a child to school age.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd1ddegp8zvo

People think they need to wait for their child to show them that they’re ‘ready’ to toilet train, so just don’t bother early enough. We don’t wait for children to tell us that they’re ready to learn to count or read, we just teach them, using the toilet should be no different.

That's interesting. There is a quote from the article:

"One mother says her son was late reaching all his milestones, and had no interest in learning to use a potty before going to school.

“He wasn’t ready,” she says. “So when we felt he was, the school really helped with that.”
A child in Year 1 is still not toilet-trained at six years old."

Waiting for a child to show signs of being ready or showing interest seems a bit passive when it's such an important life skill. Especially if it's going to make it harder to break an established habit as a 4 or 5 year old.

Lots of talking to them clearly I think is a big one. Modelling questions, asking them to point to things in story books, giving them choices "would you like milk or water?", and encouraging them to talk back to you.

Nurseries are great for developing a lot of skills, but there isn't much one-to-one language modelling with an adult. Confident children will speak for the less confident ones, and in free-flow play the children speak to each other (or don't as smaller toddlers) more than they speak to adults.

Fine for most, but children who are struggling with picking up speech for whatever reason, especially hearing related, will learn to rely on knowing the routine and can cope very well even when they're actually not hearing and/or speaking well. Then at school when they're expected to be more independent and follow instructions or make their needs known it becomes a problem.

Don't judge yet. You haven't been there.

It's actually quite tough being a parent these days, people don't have anything like the support they had 15 years ago.

It's easy to judge, but more helpful to understand.

It used to be that people would stay in for a few days to start potty training I remember my HV telling me to pick a week and don’t make plans to get dd comfortable at home using the potty and to go nappy free. Most kids are in nursery too so that’s not possible to do I think busy lives and commitments are making things harder . This was one of the reasons (also SEN) we decided not to work anymore as the FT job / nursery/ wraparound lifestyle was making us and our dc unwell

When mine were young it was a requirement to be toilet trained before they were allowed to go to nursery school or playgroup.

That's considered discrimination now

The only children I know of are not toilet trained at school age are due to additional needs, which is completely different.

Parents and caregivers on phones- not enough face to face talking
Cost of living- More in ft childcare which possibly isn't set up for toilet training
Covid generation- babies /toddlers with parents working online and no childcare.

Everything is happening later now, perhaps it's how the world has changed post covid. Children are arriving in early years settings perfectly competent in using a tablet and a tv remote, but unable to use a toy, tidying toys away to sit on the sofa doing nothing, unable to speak, unable to feed themselves or sit at a table, crying when they go outside and crying if they are expected to walk further than the end of the drive. It takes months to bring a child to the level of play and interest in the world, that they used to arrive in settings having.

I don't really understand this part of the article

"“We have a number of children who struggle with basic communication,” says Ms Skidmore. “'Can I go to the toilet? Can I have a drink?’ These are some of the basic sentences we have to teach our children to say.”
The children, whose parents speak English at home and have no learning disabilities, are coming to school unable to communicate."

They have English spoken at home, and don't have learning difficulties, and yet cannot say "can I have a drink"?
Surely a 4 year old not having that level of languages/coming to school "unable to communicate" would be a sign of SEN? Unless their parents simply don't speak to them??

Yes I agree with the pick a week theory. With my first when I had to work for financial reasons and had no idea about these things I had an amazing childminder who told me she was picking a week in Easter hols to potty train my son as she didn't have school runs for her own kids and other mindees. She obviously asked if I was OK with that!! And it was great.

With my younger one I was home. And there were no signs he was ready but I did the same when there was a week with no toddler groups etc. To be fair he took longer and had night time issues (night issues leading eventually to enuresis clinic). Some kids do show an interest in wanting to potty train but my boys would have likely plodded on unfazed. I consider myself lucky to have a hands on childminders who knew what she was doing!

The school mentioned in the article - 14 heads in 8 years…

This is very very sad. Also, very much not the case everywhere

I read that article. Some children are resistant, some have SEN or GDD but in many cases the parents are working and don't seem to have time. Really they need to take time off work and I guess that is not always easy. Tough on the schools when they already have lots to cope with.

Parents being busier is one, less extended family around them is another.

Use of phones to distract them when out and about. Instead of talking about the food they are in a trolley watching Peppa Pig because time poor parents have to rush chores. Parents on phones ignoring their children.

It's easy to ignore a two year old wanting to use a potty as people are time poor and they become resistant three year olds.

Full time nursery isn't great either as they don't get out in the real world.

Lots of reasons that mostly come down to everyone needing work away from their children, we also expect less of young children. They are very capable in more areas than people think.

Parents on phones
‘Do you want that one?’ Child nods with dummy in so no need to speak. TV on all the time, parents talking to each other and talking for the child ‘He doesn’t like this, he doesn’t like that’
parents not understanding how capable a 2 or 3 year old can be
Baby/toddler cute for instagram/facebook photos but little connection beyond that
Big focus on parents putting themselves first, having peace etc
Parents not reading books, use a tablet instead

All real life examples I’ve seen many times at work. I could go on!

I always thought the “wait until they are ready” thing was really odd. I was ready to stop changing nappies!
My kids are older now, and I also picked a week, in summer, took annual leave and used sweeties as a reward (probably a no no now!) and it worked fine- age just 2 and nearly 2.
I do notice my friends with little kids have a lower boredom threshold though and are much more about day trips and activities than I was (I was skint) so maybe staying near home for a week is too unappealing?

I think smartphones/tablets have a lot to answer for, children don't learn to talk from staring at a screen. When ever I go out now I see small children being distracted by screens rather then interacting with adults. (I mean preschool children toddlers)

The loss of sure start centres they where really good, when my 16 year old was little we had 3 in our town and one in the next village with lots of different activities that where free to access. Most of these have now gone. They would help with alsorts, from feeding to weaning and potty traning. DS also had access to speech therapy as he was late talking.

Phone distraction is a big thing too- didn’t exist in the early 00s but all my friends do it with their young ones

Parenting has become more passive from want a better expression. Baby led weaning, waiting for children to be ready... even asking children what they want to do!

Quite different to 25 years ago when we did things on the adults schedule and you had to be potty trained to go to nursery school at 2.5! (My eldest wasn't and was diagnosed with asd shortly after).

Reasons will be complicated but generally the lack of speech I think is down to parents staring at their screens rather than interacting eg i would read to my dc on the bus. Also kids being in nursery full time and not enough staff to talk to them individually. Another reason I think is parents are so busy and tired they take easy options, so not dealing with a potty training 2 year old. Finally mental health issues in the parents. But it's complicated and therefore generalising isn't helpful at an individual level, much easier at a school level to say 15% aren't potty trained and 20 years ago it was 3% or whatever the figures are, children generally are not sicker or have more disabilities, it's what we are doing

@1AngelicFruitCake I can understand how parents being on phones could contribute to a speech delay. But surely if 4 year olds without SEN are going to school "unable to communicate" the parents must be ignoring them on a neglectful level.

Parenting coach here and yes I agree with others parents are waiting until their child is ready but working with parents is difficult, they want someone to do it for them, they aren't consistent at home. They would rather sit on the phone that take a child to the toilet every 15/30 mins

I feel for theses children when they are older, kids can be cruel. Despite being in my 50s, I still remember the full name and dob of the boy who wet himself in p1, so did others and when he asked a friend out when we were teenagers the advice from us all was no way he wet himself in school! Anyway the point of this is by parents not parenting can have long lasting effects.

@bergamotorange - Absolutely. Apologies if I come across as judgemental, I don't mean it in that sense. I am the first to admit that I have zero experience of this, but I'm sure no parent wants their child to be missing out or fall behind.

I want to understand that IF you have the resources, support etc, what is the best way to avoid the problem?

But also, if there are barriers to the right support and resources, how are these overcome? I would say that just looking at the numbers from this one school, the issue is likely a systemic issue.

Is it well-meaning parents who are given poor advice? Is it lack of awareness or information? For example, I've heard the importance of breastfeeding (rightly so) at every mat appointment possible. Is there the same emphasis on toilet training from a health visitor?

Or is it lack of socialisation with other young families / long nursery hours / parents being time poor / a shift in parenting to be more individualised or child-led development / reduction in expectation / the COVID effect / processed diets and changes to hormones.

I just find it interesting how there has been such a large swing in such a small space of time. (or maybe there isn't, as I've never taken much notice before).