Toilet training and high anxiety - how schools are changing

[DeedlessIndeed]

Apologies if there is another thread on this, but I read this BBC article at the weekend and it's really stuck with me.

What on earth is happening to a percentage of young children that the schools are having to step in on such a large scale?

In the article it states that 8 out of 27 children starting school in September weren't toilet trained. Some didn't have adequate communication skills such as being able to ask for a drink.

SEN aside, does anyone know what is contributing to this delay in development? What can parents of very young children do to ensure that their child is meeting their developmental milestones?

And also, what resource does this take away from actual teaching in the old fashioned sense. What impact does this have on other children in these classes?

For context, my first baby is due in a couple of weeks so I've no idea on the realities of raising a child to school age.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd1ddegp8zvo

I first became aware of this in the '90s, when I did primary liaison for my secondary school.

I recall being told that a set of twins had arrived at one of our feeder primaries. Not unusual...except that they didn't know their own names. They'd been used to "The Twins" or "Hey you!"

At the same time, the primaries were beginning to see children who weren't toilet trained because parents were waiting for it to happen naturally.

By the time I retired from my permanent position, my school's Maths Dept was having to teach children how to tell the time. When I was at school in the '60s, the expectation was that parents would do this, though I do recall our P7 teacher giving us a quick lesson when she realised that two of the boys couldn't tell the time.

Yes. I volunteered at a playgroup in '77, and the requirements were that children had to be at least 3 yrs old and toilet trained.

Funnily enough, private schools still insist on this, and children manage. Clearly SEN is different, but asking NT parents to ensure they are fully TT before their DC can join pre-school at 3 seems to elicit a different result from the current standard.

I recall my husband being appalled when we were out at a restaurant with his daughter, partner and grandchild and the 4yr old immediately grabbed at food with her hands.

The child was later placed in a private primary school and the parents commented on the "beautiful manners" their child was being taught. My husband's comment was "Is that not your job?" This did not go down well.

There was a SAHF.

Waiting for a child to show signs of being ready or showing interest seems a bit passive

If a proactive parent decides to look for the NHS' advice on potty training they will find this advice "Remember, you cannot force your child to use a potty. If they're not ready, you will not be able to make them use it." Along with a list of signs they are ready.

It does give broad ages but there's an emphasis on the child being ready.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/baby/babys-development/potty-training-and-bedwetting/how-to-potty-train/

Some years ago I read an article which won a Pulitzer, I wish I could find it again. It was about how children learn language and how a lot of people think if they sit their kids in front of some vaguely educational thing in the TV eg nursery rhymes they’ll learn language that way. But the article showed children need face to face time with an adult to actually learn words. Classic response of your 18 month old hands you a toy banana and you go ‘oh Yum, shall we peel it and chop it up for dolly, let’s get a knife and bowl and get dolly sat down. ’ They can’t get that from the TV.

I also notice little kids in buggies staring at a phone. Mine are still young but I’ve never done that, mainly because I don’t want their grubby hands on my phone hut also because there is so much to look at in the world, the faces and clothes of strangers, language to hear, clouds, wind, smells and most importantly it’s ok for them to be bored! Even if that prompts some whining.

Aside from SEN children, parents have become lazy nappies are easy and they don’t like staying in.

Too many children seem to have parents who simply don't communicate with their children.

On the other hand, we have children who come into school swearing all the time because that's what they hear at home.

Is there the same emphasis on toilet training from a health visitor?

No. We just had DD2's 2 year check. This was the first time we'd heard from the HV team since her 9 month check, and is the last time we will hear from them (we can of course contact them if we have concerns but we won't be contacted by them again unless we request it). Toilet training wasn't mentioned during the appointment.

Ditto managing acceptable behaviour. The number of times I've heard mothers saying "Wait till you you start school! The teacher won't allow that..."

So interesting about screens. I know I'm guilty of this myself and can fully see how if you are working full time, rushing around to complete chores in your free hours, ensure your family's immediate needs are met and then finally get 5 minutes you just want to disengage and escape on a screen.

In years past, if you went out for a walk with a child in a pushchair, it was usual, I think, to point things out as you walked along, comment on the things you saw, cars, buses, birds, shop windows, anything and everything. Even 10-15 years ago, when I took my toddler grandchildren for a walk, we’d do the same. We could see a railway line in the distance and we played the game of guessing which colour the train would be. Those are all communication and learning opportunities.

I know it’s not the case for everyone, but I do see many parents with small children, pushing the pushchair with one hand and scrolling the phone with the other. Both men and women. The child might be looking around at things, but no one is pointing out what they are and what is happening.

I suppose it can be difficult to determine whether a child is ND or NT at the toddler and small child age, but if there are such large numbers of children not toilet trained at nursery and school, something else must surely be going on.

Meaning many children were excluded from the benefits of the group because they were barred. That's the problem with that approach.

We have Y7s at the secondary school I’m at who have never held cutlery or sat at a table to eat.
One child was given a written test to do and could not hold a pen as the primary school did screen based work and he didn’t do any colouring or similar at home. He also tried to swipe through the pages of the test. It is shocking and used to be the exception but is now much more common.
Our feeder primary schools report that parents expect nurseries and schools to do the parenting with regards to potty training and many of the social skills such as sharing etc. These kids are really being let down by their families.

https://www.readingrockets.org/people-and-organizations/todd-risley - Could it be related to this research? I've only read an excerpt and watched his interview, but I was surprised by the amount of variance in vocabulary from social families and not for children under 3.

If you find the article please share! I'm really interested in learning more about this.

Sorry - you had a secondary school child who never learned to hold a pen at primary school? They don't do screen based stuff the whole way through. Didn't they learn how to write letters in reception?
I find it hard to believe a primary school never had children doing anything involving holding a pen or pencil.

Obviously children should be holding pens and pencils at home as well, before and during primary school ages. But I can't believe the primary school didn't do it. My DD is in reception and they do writing every day.

This isn't a new thing, illiteracy rates are actually falling - but if you've got parents who are not able to read or write to any decent standard, how are they personally to blame for not teaching their children?

It is such a cop out to blame the parents alone.

For potty training I think the problem is two-fold

with modern disposables, parents have switched to a method of waiting to change until the nappy is ‘full’. The child no longer learns to associate peeing with something happening. With cloth or older disposables, parents would wait for a convenient time to change sometimes, but there was still a stronger association.

the easiest way to potty train is at home with little distraction. There is just no getting around that. If parents can’t make the time to stay home near the potty for multiple days in a row, it’s going to be very hard for a child to make the main transition.

I'm a parent of two dds. One potty trained at 2 and a half, took her about 3 days to figure it out, my second is now 3 and a half, no additional needs and simply refuses to wear knickers. I haven't parented her any differently and my approach to potty training was exactly the same. It's not always about parenting , some children are just different. Dd2 is ahead for all other areas, communication etc she's just bloody stubborn.
I do agree though that parenting is maybe softer these days. My mum said she'd have just forced my dd2 by now but is it fair to physically take a nappy off a screaming child and force her not to have one on, I'm not sure if the harsher ways of the past are better 🤷🏻‍♀️

I was also going to blame mobile phones/tablets. If I had a £1 for every time i see a parent pushing a pushchair with one hand and a mobile phone in the other, either texting or talking to someone else, then I'd be very rich.
I also regularly see small children with phones/tablets shoved in front of them so their parents can drink alcohol chat with their friends whilst ignoring their children.

I've seen all sorts of excuses for delayed development including Covid. But I know of 2 families locally with 4 year olds who were born 4 - 6 weeks before lockdown 1. Both children are confident, chatty, active and toilet trained. Parents are all working full time but spend their spare time engaging their children in activities, talking to them, involving them in household tasks. Parenting requires input and effort - life skills don't just happen by osmosis.

My children are young adults now, but when they were of school-starting age we were given a list of things they were expected to know how to do once we had an allocated primary place. That meant roughly 5 months before starting school, so time to work on it.

Toilet trained, able to take clothes on and off, able to ask to use the toilet and for a drink, to drink without a sippy cup, eat at a table using cutlery - that sort of thing.

Quite a lot of these families are probably ones that could really have benefitted from SureStart/Children's Centre support.

Unfortunately the Government decided that this type of support wasn't important enough to keep.

Do you think the difference now is that there isn't the same expectation put on parents to ensure this benchmark was met, or that it isn't communicated as well?

Or is it that by the point the child is heading to primary school it is too late and they are already too behind to catch up in time?

Some of my peers admitted to preferring nappies. I got to a point where I started to really hate nappy changing and that's what made me potty train with a cold turkey attitude to nappies. I don't think being parent led is fashionable these days but I don't regret it.

It has been the case for many years though that the advantages (or otherwise) of having parents who are actively involved with their DC is clear in Reception. And that doesn’t mean you can’t work FT, it’s more complex than that. DMIL used to work in primary and 20 years ago was commenting on the difference between the DC who arrived able to count to 100 and spell their names ( or at least recognise them) and those who couldn’t count to 10 and sometimes didn’t know their name because they got called ‘princess’ at home. Isn’t this an extension of the same thing?