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Madeleine McCann new evidence - BREAKING NEWS

838 replies

PrettyFlyforaMaiTai · 05/06/2024 18:58

A Senior German detective has told a court that investigators had found emails on a Hotmail account used by Christian Brueckner that linked him directly to the Madeleine McCann case.

However, the detective was unable to share details of the evidence as it was 'related to the killing' of Madeleine. Brueckner, the prime suspect, is currently on trial in Germany for unrelated sex crimes.

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7
Avatartar · 06/06/2024 12:34

If there is evidence out there, I hope they find it soon and can bring a case.The ongoing agony and turmoil for the family is unimaginable.

SocoBateVira · 06/06/2024 12:35

BertieBotts · 06/06/2024 12:31

The thing about all the "was/wasn't it normal" speculation is that it actually doesn't matter at all what you personally experienced as normal because we tend to reflect the majority view of our environment and peers. So it tends to seem to people as though what they personally consider to be normal is universal, but this is not usually the case, especially for things where the predominant view has changed or is in the process of changing (which, I think, leaving children unattended has undergone a huge cultural shift between say 1970 and today).

Internet forums were well underway in 2005 and for a few years before that. Mumsnet itself has posts going back to 2000. You can freely go back and see for yourself that it was absolutely considered normal by some people, which does not mean that every single person who had children around that time would have considered it a reasonable decision to make.

Behavioural and cultural norms (e.g. which risks are considered appropriate to take) take time to change, and won't flip in an instant for the entire country overnight. It is just as correct for one person to say "In the 80s, nobody used car seats for children" as it is for somebody else to say "In the 80s it was absolutely normal to use car seats, they were sold in Mothercare and everyone I know used them".

And regardless of whether leaving children unattended is considered normal/reasonable, I think absolutely everyone would agree that it is NOT a normal response, on learning that a child is unattended, to abduct them. The normal response would be (variously) - ignore, try to find the parents, contact the police.

Stranger abduction is exceedingly rare specifically because of this norm. Most people do not want to hurt children. Most people, even those who would hurt children do not abduct children. The issue is in this case, police are now aware that an extremely twisted, sick individual already found guilty of other horrific crimes of a rare and related nature was in fact highly likely to have been in the area at the time of the disappearance. So while stranger abduction is rare generally, because the kind of person who would abduct a stranger is, thankfully, rare, the odds of that being the answer increase enormously when you know that such a person was in the area.

It's like if a person had a mystery injury which looked like a spider bite, saying that a certain kind of spider bite is rare because that species of spider is rare, so an injury could not possibly be that bite, but then discovering that there was one of those spiders in the room where the person was bitten. The premise that this spider is very rare no longer matters, it unfortunately becomes extremely likely that the bite was in fact from that spider.

Excellent post. The number of people confidently asserting what was and wasn't accepted and normal, never with any kind of data, is incredible.

I mentioned upthread that it wasn't normal in my family or circles. We never went on the kind of holiday that would've offered things like listening services, all much more bare bones than that. To the extent that I was surprised, in 2007, to learn that they existed and to hear accounts from people who said they'd done it. The concept did seem very dodgy to me.

Nonetheless, that didn't immediately qualify me to decide I was able to speak for social norms across millions of people. Yet apparently there are oodles of posters in this thread who think they can do just that.

XiCi · 06/06/2024 12:35

DelusionalBrilliance · 06/06/2024 11:04

@XiCi Madeleine wasn’t hurt by being in the apartment with her siblings, she was harmed by the monster who thought he could steal a child. The two acts are not comparable. Every time you say it’s the parents fault you are detracting from the vile creature who stole a child. Do you not understand? It’s akin to those idiots who say a woman who was wearing a short skirt deserved it. Gross.

The facts are that you don't know that a vile creature stole a child. All of this is conjecture. There was no evidence of a break in, no evidence of an abduction. We don't know whether the child had an accident in that room or whether she wandered off and had an accident as she has never been found. The only evidence was the dna in the apartment and boot of the car and the sniffer dogs which wasn't enough to prove what happened. Noone here knows what happened to that child.
I wonder if it was found that Madeline had died from an accident in the room or had wandered out and had an accident people would still be so supportive of the parents leaving the children alone.

NigelHarmansNewWife · 06/06/2024 12:35

SocoBateVira · 06/06/2024 12:32

I wonder if it would ever be possible to have a thread about developments in the case that didn't descend into yet another rehashing of the parents neglect?

No. As yet another thread evidences.

But for whoever took the child she would still be with her family. Whoever took her is to blame.

crockofshite · 06/06/2024 12:35

Thelastbitofketchup · 05/06/2024 21:39

I thought the script was that Scotland Yard detectives conveniently discover new evidence at this time of the year that necessitates golf clubs to be packed a trip to the Algarve for investigation.
interesting to critique the police.
No mention of the fact she was left alone
would anything have happened if she hadn’t been
Place ire where it should be

If he hadn't taken Madeleine he would have snatched another child off the street.

Lopiun · 06/06/2024 12:39

It was a tremendous mistake to leave the kids. But Jerry and Kate have paid the ultimate price, it is a fate worse than death.

Poor poor Madeleine.

TeaGinandFags · 06/06/2024 12:40

MoonKiss · 06/06/2024 10:06

I always felt that the family were probably being watched in the run up to Madeleine being taken. Chilling.

I’ve never been in the “parents did it” camp, why on earth would they relentlessly and publicly pursue the investigation for years on end, if they killed her? You’d think they’d keep their heads down and hope it faded away, but no.

If Maddie had been kidnapped then by shouting out loud the parents would have guaranteed her murder.

They never went out to look for her, unlike most parents who have to be carried back exhausted from the search. They also messed the police about overtly obstructing the investigation. They lied.

They not only left a toddler on her own, but two small babies. How can that ever be justified?

Onomatofear · 06/06/2024 12:42

BertieBotts · 06/06/2024 12:31

The thing about all the "was/wasn't it normal" speculation is that it actually doesn't matter at all what you personally experienced as normal because we tend to reflect the majority view of our environment and peers. So it tends to seem to people as though what they personally consider to be normal is universal, but this is not usually the case, especially for things where the predominant view has changed or is in the process of changing (which, I think, leaving children unattended has undergone a huge cultural shift between say 1970 and today).

Internet forums were well underway in 2005 and for a few years before that. Mumsnet itself has posts going back to 2000. You can freely go back and see for yourself that it was absolutely considered normal by some people, which does not mean that every single person who had children around that time would have considered it a reasonable decision to make.

Behavioural and cultural norms (e.g. which risks are considered appropriate to take) take time to change, and won't flip in an instant for the entire country overnight. It is just as correct for one person to say "In the 80s, nobody used car seats for children" as it is for somebody else to say "In the 80s it was absolutely normal to use car seats, they were sold in Mothercare and everyone I know used them".

And regardless of whether leaving children unattended is considered normal/reasonable, I think absolutely everyone would agree that it is NOT a normal response, on learning that a child is unattended, to abduct them. The normal response would be (variously) - ignore, try to find the parents, contact the police.

Stranger abduction is exceedingly rare specifically because of this norm. Most people do not want to hurt children. Most people, even those who would hurt children do not abduct children. The issue is in this case, police are now aware that an extremely twisted, sick individual already found guilty of other horrific crimes of a rare and related nature was in fact highly likely to have been in the area at the time of the disappearance. So while stranger abduction is rare generally, because the kind of person who would abduct a stranger is, thankfully, rare, the odds of that being the answer increase enormously when you know that such a person was in the area.

It's like if a person had a mystery injury which looked like a spider bite, saying that a certain kind of spider bite is rare because that species of spider is rare, so an injury could not possibly be that bite, but then discovering that there was one of those spiders in the room where the person was bitten. The premise that this spider is very rare no longer matters, it unfortunately becomes extremely likely that the bite was in fact from that spider.

Of course stranger abduction is, thankfully rare. But that’s not the reason why leaving three children under 5, alone in an apartment is a crazy thing to do. It’s because they are much more likely to have an accident.

SloaneStreetVandal · 06/06/2024 12:43

XiCi · 06/06/2024 12:35

The facts are that you don't know that a vile creature stole a child. All of this is conjecture. There was no evidence of a break in, no evidence of an abduction. We don't know whether the child had an accident in that room or whether she wandered off and had an accident as she has never been found. The only evidence was the dna in the apartment and boot of the car and the sniffer dogs which wasn't enough to prove what happened. Noone here knows what happened to that child.
I wonder if it was found that Madeline had died from an accident in the room or had wandered out and had an accident people would still be so supportive of the parents leaving the children alone.

We can use logic and reason though.

I haven't read any details of the immediate investigation in a long time, however I'm confident that the 'evidence' used by conspiracy theorists (to suggest she died in the room) has been debunked entirely. I'm in no doubt you'll have screeds of youtube and quora 'evidence', but please don't waste your time presenting same, because I won't be engaging.

IAlwaysTellTheTruthEvenWhenILie · 06/06/2024 12:43

Hope they've got enough to charge him. Police has suspected this guy for a while now.

DancefloorAcrobatics · 06/06/2024 12:43

I'm planning devil's advocate... if Brueckner hasn't been charged with anything in relation to the McCanns case then maybe he's just passed on information to a 3rd party or he's a witness? Email evidence can mean absolutely anything. The luck of details is concerning. There is no doubt that he's a predator and recognised opportunity... he was in the right area at the right time.

He's a proofen rapist, he deserves a lengthy prison sentence but there is currently no proof for child abduction.

Newbutoldfather · 06/06/2024 12:46

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gotmyknickersinatwist · 06/06/2024 12:54

Nopet · 05/06/2024 21:41

I don’t want to know…absolutely sickening that this creature is still alive!
I think about her parents regularly and they were destroyed that day .
They didn’t do anything wrong apart from a bad call leaving her at the apartment.
As a parent who had children a similar age in the 90s/00s it was considered ok to eat very close to our apartment and regularly check. It was normal and never on our radar that a weirdo would steal our child.

It wouldn't have been on my radar that a 'weirdo' would steal my child either, but what would have been on my radar was that my child might have woken up, in an unfamiliar environment, needing something - the toilet, comforted etc.
I'm not commenting on the McCanns behaviour, but I am commenting on the attitude that it was 'normal' to leave your kids alone on holiday, even if you were somewhere 'very close' by.

BirthdayRainbow · 06/06/2024 12:56

Strawberriesaregoingoff · 05/06/2024 22:14

They didn’t do anything wrong apart from a bad call leaving her at the apartment

That's a pretty big wrong. I feel so sorry for them though despite their terrible judgement. My DC's were born early 2000 and no way on earth would I have ever left them alone like that.

Dh and I went to a wedding and the evening do was in the hotel we were staying at. We took it in turns as we weren't leaving our 18 month old in an albeit locked hotel room and we weren't that far away. I am sorry for them, their twins and their wider family but I'm much more sorry for Madeleine. I've parented by I'd rather my kids wrapped in cotton wool than a wooden box but they've still had age appropriate opportunities, I've not taken any risks where the benefits weren't worth it and asked myself what can I live with.

SwimmingSnake · 06/06/2024 12:59

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SwimmingSnake · 06/06/2024 13:01

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Speedweed · 06/06/2024 13:05

Whether it was 'the norm' or not (and parenting choices have always varied widely at any time), this man was obviously stalking the family as a potential target (and probably others). He wasn't going round randomly trying doors in the complex, he knew exactly which family had parents nearby but not in the apartment, which door, in which villa, in which room a little girl would be asleep at that time. He'd been watching them, and just needed the opportunity, which I'm sure to their external regret, they gave him.

Wheeder · 06/06/2024 13:05

I have chosen not to neuter my rescue staffie (I have no intention of breeding at all). I refuse to leave him alone (car, garden, house etc) as he is at such a risk of being stolen. I take such tremendous care with my boy (multiple gps trackers) that I do find it shocking that Kate and Jerry left three beautiful children in an unknown place unattended. I wouldn’t leave my dog in the scenario they left Madeleine.

But I won’t crucify them for it. The loss of Madeleine is punishment enough.

SpudleyLass · 06/06/2024 13:07

Forgive me for stating the bleeding obvious, but the German prosecutors obviously know a lot more behind the scenes than what they've been drip feeding in the media.

I strongly suspect that they are bringing up emails now in case Brueckner's former 'contacts', have changed their loyalties. i.e spook them out into giving them information.

In one way, it reminds me of the John Barrymore pool death victim. The police there seem to have an inkling of who did it but need people to speak out.

Brueckner is a very twisted individual and the others he must have contacted in these emails, will be of the same mentality. If these others are led to believe the police are aware of their own criminality, they may try to barter on sentencing in exchange for valuable information.

I could be completely off the mark, but that is my feeling.

Poor Madeleine.

SocoBateVira · 06/06/2024 13:09

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Mostly worked? Which internet are you on? They've had much worse than awkward questions asked! Even this thread alone will indicate that. They've been accused of killing her themselves, blamed for the fact that other missing DC have had less attention, people have said they drugged her... the list goes on and on.

Liv999 · 06/06/2024 13:09

crockofshite · 06/06/2024 12:35

If he hadn't taken Madeleine he would have snatched another child off the street.

This

idrinkandiknowthings · 06/06/2024 13:19

It was a grave lapse in judgement leaving her and her siblings alone just to have dinner. I also concur that had she been the child of parents on benefits or a council estate then the case wouldn't have generated any near as much interest.

However, I never believed the McCanns were involved in her death. I sincerely hope they find some answers and closure. Poor little dot.

SwimmingSnake · 06/06/2024 13:19

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Mirabai · 06/06/2024 13:31

It was a grave lapse in judgement leaving her and her siblings alone just to have dinner.

This is so helpful. Without this, no-one would ever have thought of it. Just as no-one has said anything at similar on this thread, or indeed the 10.4 billion other threads for the last 17 years.

SocoBateVira · 06/06/2024 13:31

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Ok. What questions, by which officials and why do you think they haven't been asked already?