Staying at a friends house - it’s filthy

[Wellthisisshitty]

We are driving across the country for a short trip and a friend who I’ve not seen in a few years asked if we’d like to come and stay to break up the journey there. Her husband is away for work for a few days, mine is at home working so it was a no brainer.

We used to live in the same area, both moved away a few years ago so I jumped at it. Thought it would be lovely to spend the day/night with her and her children, all same age as mine, older two went to school together when they were small.

We arrived an hour ago and I could cry. It’s like something out of those hoarders programs and it honestly smells like something has died in here. The smell hit me as soon as she opened the door and it got worse as I headed to the kitchen/bathroom. The sofas are encrusted with food/first and covered with clothes, food, toys. Flies everywhere, cat shit overflowing litter trays.

Shes given me and my toddler her room for the night, just put our bags up there and you can’t even walk to the bed. Shit all over the bed and the floor and god, the smell. Bathrooms are piled high. my other children are supposed to be sleeping in her children’s rooms but again, piled high.

I feel awful saying this, but I don’t know if I can stay here. She said she would cook, but I am standing in her kitchen and there is just mould on everything. I’m sticking taking us all out to a carvery on my credit card as a thank you, I can’t eat here.

I don’t care if I sound awful by the way. It’s not just a bit of dirt and mess.

I'm not saying it's acceptable. I'm saying that I predict ss wouldn't deem it as unacceptable enough to do a whole lot. I'm not saying it's a good way to live either. I'm saying there's less far-fetched reasons for why they're living this way than the parents being horrifically depressed or any other major issues.

For people saying they should get a cleaner doctor's wages (like many others) have massively dipped with real time inflation and most aren't nearly as well off as you'd imagine. Many simply wouldn't be able to afford a cleaner, myself included

@Janedoe82 of course you are correct.
That anyone would suggest that children living in a filthy, mouldy, messy house with overflowing cat shit are not impacted is a total joke.
Many many people live lives of quiet desperation with undiagnosed conditions that make organising their home difficult.
Some live with partners that hoard.
Some have busy lives and cannot be arsed.
The impact on children is huge. They don't understand how they live. The feel enormous shame when it is brought to the attention of other children.
I have definitely come across a few people who were living in messy houses because they had depression and were overwhelmed.
When they got help for their mental health and it improved, they eventually with help tackled their house mess to an extent.
I like a tidy, clean house because it is a calm restful place to spend time in.
I cannot understand how anyone could defend children living in absolute filth as being anything other than awful.
I think some people take for granted that living in a clean organised home, and keeping it that way IS a life skill.
A life skill that doesn't come naturally to everyone.

Two very busy careers, long hours, one parent regularly away.
House work is maintained by doing a bit every single day, to keep on top of it, particularly with children.
It really wouldn't take long for your average house to go to absolute shit if no one was doing anything.

These are two doctors, who have probably come through working through the pandemic and the government running the NHS into the ground.

These sound to me like hard working people who have the balance of public service and self care all wrong, possibly suffering from severe and chronic professional stress. The OP’s friend sound like she’s a lovely person, housekeeping aside.

I can only imagine how it must be if you spend all your hygiene, cleanliness and orderly tidiness quotient at work, especially if you happen to be neurodivergent.

Maybe this is another of the countless tiny ripples caused by a really shit government running the country into the ground, and public servants over the edge, especially in the NHS.

Also, I’d venture to say it’s often a failing of the middle class, especially where the emphasis is put on academic & professional success, that people are not raised to be particularly houseproud. Also status does not depend on a clean house - a bit like well off people lounging round in scruffy clothes.

Poor woman she must be struggling mentally. Hopefully you are a good friend and would help because she has been very nice to invite you.

Not necessarily. The person I knew who lived like this did not have any MH issues at all. She just didn’t see an issue with it despite it being beyond disgusting. I visited her parents house once - it was pristine. God knows what they made of their daughter.

Thank you! I thought I was going mad!!

SS would most likely refer to some sort of family support- but they wouldn't do nothing.

tell her the truth ? Yes it will hurt but perhaps its needed ?

They probably would do nothing. There was a kid in my son's class when he was little whose family lived in our village and from the age of about 2, he was allowed to just roam freely round the village (which was right by a busy A road) and was left to fend for himself when his parents went out. Their house was also like the OP describes- absolutely disgusting. The parents were both nice enough people but clearly did have mental health challenges. I felt I had to report it to SS when I found the kid (aged about 6) trying to walk the five miles to school along the A road and was worried he'd come to serious harm, even though I felt like a massive snake in the grass doing it. I am convinced that SS did absolutely nothing as they said the family was 'known to them' but nothing changed at all.

A couple of middle class doctors? Yeah, they will 100% get away with it with social services. I’d be shocked if it resulted in any action being taken and the OP’s friendship would be over.

Love it. I've seen the government blamed for pretty much everything, but people choosing to live in squalor because the govt doesn't pump enough money into the NHS has got to be the winner.

Add in a dollop of sneering at the middle classes and all we need is 'and I bet it's because the GPs won't do childcare so the parents don't have time to clean' and we have all bases covered.

According to our mutual friend, many of her friends have told her it’s a pigsty over the years. Including her.

She said they don’t care. they see no issue, would rather have fun/go away lots than clean.

Our mutual friend told me Other friends of theirs refuse to stay there. So maybe I didn’t have to make up an excuse after all! I didn’t know, my mutual friend went to uni with her 25 years ago so knows her much better than I do.

Again, it’s not like they have lived in a void and I am the only person they have seen in years and only I can make them aware.

I think that things should be flagged and if SW fail to do their jobs on their heads be it. But at least some effort has been made to get help for the children, and should anything happen further down the line it is recorded. Sometimes you just have to keep blowing the whistle. Sad but true.

On social works head be it, but it is pretty insulting to assume all social workers are totally inept and won't be able to see through professionals bluffing that their parenting isn't shit.

Perhaps actually hearing the words 'this is neglect and you are harming your children no differently to the parents in the council house a mile away' from another professional might give them the kick in the arse they need.

It’s not easy to keep a large house with a busy household - adults, kids, pets - clean and tidy to a high standard when the two adults work full time in busy jobs with lots of travel. Good cleaners are hard to find too and if the clutter is an issue, difficult for cleaners to do their job. And the family may prefer to spend the £400 a month a cleaner would cost for a house of that size on other activities!

just saying there’s a lot of judgment and over reach going on here (as the OP says!) and also as the OP says, the kids and family are happy. When mine were young my motto at the end of a day is “all fed none dead” or something like that. I probably got it off Mumsnet years ago TBH.

There are some very high standards being projected by posters here which are frankly unrealistic and unkind.

He lives there too and clearly does bugger all.

It's not fooling SS. In realitySS don't see to be able to cope. I'm under children with disabilities SS and not once has my SW made contact with school since she took our case on 7 months ago. School was still contacting the old sw who gad left. School had some concerns about ds lunch ( think he was eating in his taxi) so appeared to be going in with no food and telling them he had no breakfast. So that's a neglect indicator. I got nowhere and school stopped chasing.

No one can be sure I'm not intentionally starving him. SS aren't checking in with a kid on their books. I could so easily hid so much from them if I wanted to. I don't honestly belive any of his last three disability socail workers actually care about him on any level. It's very cursory box ticking because he gets direct payments.

Growing up in real filth impacts deeply on children as they get to an age to understand how others around them see it, and respond to it.

Growing up with passive abuse of animals also impacts deeply on children as they start to realize what they are part off, and they too did nothing.

Growing up with intelligent parents, protected by social standing, leaves children knowing their parents are exempt from consequences of whatever is done to them, impacting deeply and silently.

Mold on everything can indicate a damp/ventilation issue, as well as parents who can't or wont stay on top of it. Some seem to think it's just a thing they must live with.

Actual hoarding is a MH issue, and very difficult to treat even when the person is self aware and desperately wants help.

There is a big difference between hoarding and failing to chuck/clear out.
Filthy, unhygienic, and don't throw things out isn't automatically hoarding. But it can mimic the look of chaotic hoarding.

The difference is determined by if the stuff is held onto because of extreme emotional attachment, or just failure to chuck, pass on, dispose, but unbothered if it was all removed for them.

Having hoarding issues doesn't automatically equate to filthy homes. Or homes being out of control, though generally the later is common, but the while it's harder to clean with a lot of clutter, generally it results in the more used areas being clean enough, with hidden or unreachable areas becoming untended, but this can deteriorate.
Not emptying and cleaning cat litter trays is generally a level of care choice rather than entirely overwhelmed. (not including animal hoarders here)

Hoarding doesn't always mean untidy, dirty, squalid, some hoarders are very organized, tidy, clean, and obsessed with keeping things that way.

People have referred to squalor hoarding, what is being described here is very unpleasant but it isn't squalor hoarding. But if they are actual hoarders as opposed to people who fail to chuck, they have the prerequisites to develop into squalor hoarders.

If it is actual hoarding, not caring about hygiene, and protected by status as Dr's the children's situation and repercussions on them, is going to get considerably worse as they get older.

There's a difference between a bit of clutter and actually wallowing around in filth, and there really isn't an excuse for parents of any income or class to allow their kids to exist in the latter state. If they want to wallow in filth themselves, that's up to them but don't inflict it on those without a choice.

Loads of us work full-time in demanding jobs and still manage to parent our kids in clean houses. It's not a massive ask.

Are you honestly trying to justify shite-encrusted carpets, filth, and mould? You're basically excusing and enabling abuse.

I don't mean this rudely, but think you will find that this sort of professional parent, is highly unlikely to see the average social worker as being 'another professional' on any sort of par with them, or care about the opinion unless it was followed up with action, which would be pretty unlikely.

In my area, this level of neglect would be likely to be effectively considered 'benign if undesirable', because of a combination of educated parents, social standing, good support network, loving, otherwise providing and meeting needs, v/s high case loads, of: direct danger, violence, sexual abuse, severe deprivation, criminality, homelessness, malnourishment, severe unmet needs, isolation, addiction, etc.

So I think a great deal of what is or isn't acceptable depends on the area and it's workload. This crappy government isn't responsible for what's going on in this house because they are Dr's,(!) but they do have responsibility for how CP is funded and overseen or not.

I agree @Elleherd social services wouldn't do anything about this. I have regular SS contact due to my job. I make safeguarding referrals. I've had referrals sent back as no further action when dv is involved, when physical violence is happening at home, alcohol abuse etc. They're just overwhelmed and only the very serious cases get investigated. (in my area anyway)

well in my area it would be taken forward- I know as I have been involved in similar cases.